How to kill yourself with a shotgun

I am so sorry you are suffering such intense emotional pain that you looked up how to kill yourself. As bad as it is, there is no rush to kill yourself right now. Give my late son Charles a few minutes of your time.

Watch the video on this page. It’s from Charles and he hurt as much as you do now. He killed himself in 2015. He was so talented. So loved.

United States Suicide Hotline 1-800-273-8255

U.S. Crisis text line 741-741

United Kingdom 116 123

Suicide hotlines for other countries

If you are a teen or young adult, several have used this guide to figure out how to tell a parent or loved one you want to die.  For the Teen Contemplating Suicide and Looking for the Strength to Reach Out. I hope you will use it. It takes courage to reach out for help.

Published by

AnneMoss Rogers

AnneMoss Rogers is a mental health and suicide education expert, mental health speaker, suicide prevention trainer and consultant. She is author of the Book, Diary of a Broken Mind and co-author of Emotionally Naked: A Teacher's Guide to Preventing Suicide and Recognizing Students at Risk with Kim O'Brien PhD, LICSW. She raised two boys, Richard and Charles, and lost her younger son, Charles to addiction and suicide on June 5, 2015. She is a motivational speaker who empowers by educating and provides life saving strategies and emotionally healthy coping skills. As talented and funny as Charles was, letting other people know they matter was his greatest gift. And now that's the legacy she carries forward in her son's memory. Mental Health Speakers Website.

93 thoughts on “How to kill yourself with a shotgun”

  1. Smaller goals do help. Sometimes I need help with that bit. Breaking things down into doable amounts. Thankfully, my therapist and others (dietitian , etc.) that I am working with are good at helping set a pace. It feels too slow to me but I also know that I have a tendency to take on too much and crash.

    Well, I believe that my flatmate is thinking about it (our alcohol talk). She got a couple of low alcohol drinks for tonight. I’m debating whether to have any.
    More than anything, my GI has been such a mess. I’m in a lot of pain and have barely slept for about 4 days. I’m starting to go cross-eyed. Haha! Yikes. I need sleep.

    So it’s St. Patrick’s Day, apparently.
    Holidays keep creeping up on me, over the last half of a year. I’m usually really on top of it. I spent the last 4 years being really on top of it.
    People keep asking me what I’m doing for this day or that. I tell them I don’t know. I feel pressure. They’re not really putting that on me but after 4 years of hosting and making these days something special… I just feel bad. It’s not just me losing out. I am not bothered for myself, I need a break, but it’s everyone else…

    Speaking of St. Patrick’s Day, I saw a commercial the other day that opened by saying “break out the Kiss Me, I’m Irish shirt” or something along those lines. I found myself irritated.

    We need a shirt that says,

    “I’m Irish but please don’t kiss me.
    And if you try to pinch me, I’m sorry to say, but you might get punched in the nose. Please don’t take it personally, but that’s what happens when you activate a person’s fight/flight/freeze response. Please enjoy your day responsibly.”

    Haha! I imagine I would get a LOT of strange looks and I would never want to draw that much attention to myself. But I am betting there would be a lot of people out there who would appreciate it, too.

    Do you have any special St. Patty’s traditions?

    1. In the days I worked at an ad agency ad a copywriter (making up ads and writing them) we used to come up with funny, crazy headlines and slogans like that. Just to break the creative ceiling. So much fun.

      I had no idea it was at patty’s weekend. I was out with my cousin to see a comedy show and then to dinner and the waiter said, happy st Patrick’s day. I have always gotten it mixed up thinking it is on the 14th and not the 17th. I remembered later yesterday when seeing people dressed up. I am scotch-Irish. I did have a bit of green but mostly pink. Mostly I hunted down tax stuff my accountant needed and went to the farmer’s market.

      How exciting right? I never went back to drinking. I wasn’t a big drinker but a social drinker. But it doesn’t do me any favors from UTIs to not being able to speak. For some reason since the radiation it paralyzes my vocal cord, the one I have left. Beer has yeast and I am allergic. Most alcohol turns to sugar which I cannot digest. But it was after having lunch with that dad who was a mess 7 years after his son’s death who said he drank daily to manage the pain that pushed me to move it out of my life. That freaked me out. Others I met with had found other avenues to manage the pain. It was pure hell and I didn’t want to make it worse. I hurt enough without my helping myself stay hurt longer. I lost one third of my hair, I got raised welts (hives) which itched, I ran into walls, couldn’t breathe sometimes, limbs had weights in them, my chest hurt, my face hurt, my eyes were always red, I looked sunken and ghostly, on and on. I couldn’t stand being there so I used my toolbox and built my toolbox and wrote and ran and cried. I struggled the most with reaching out. And that first year I felt ignored and abandoned by all except my best friend. I will say that I am a different person to say in ways I am proud of. It was so hard. It is still hard. But once I let the pain in and distracted once it lifted and spoke out publicly I started to feel the healing process so I stayed with that.

      I can compare. The only thing I relate to is the pain. But mine came from a different place for a different reason. But you are helping me understand your experience which started so young when you wouldn’t have been equipped or had the skills. I think your parents did love you but like you said just had come from trauma themselves. And one thing I think you should be really proud of is working through anger na bitterness and leaving it behind because you didn’t want to live your live mad.

      Oh my that was a rant. 🙂

      1. I’m pretty raw right now. Sleep eludes me. It’s taken me this late in the day and a soda to think much. I can’t find my words well. And the home health nurse upset me. Just another person with biases and assumptions “should-ing” me. I do that enough to myself already. I just withdrew into myself. I would rather struggle alone than let anyone near me if they’re just going to do that. I can’t handle it. She asked if there was any new SH and there was but I said I was fine and didn’t tell her. Why would I? I don’t trust her. I’d rather just deal with it myself. I’m just so tired. I’m not sure when I changed bandages and I’m just too tired. I’m in pain and feeling in a dark place. A young part and we cried for awhile. I want to SH again but I’m trying not to. I feel so far away. Head is hard to think. Tired. Can’t sleep. Too much. Too much everything. Just want to be alone. No people. Not safe. Better alone. Deal myself my way. I’m sorry for being bad.

        1. Ohhhhh I had to be shoulded. Thanks so much nurse for your unsolicited advice and judgment!

          I wrote a long post on LinkedIn today about charles—his depression and drug use. Everyone was great but there is always one dumb@$$. This guy wrote that if his kid was doing drugs he would beat him to death. I screenshotted his comment and I will put it in my presentations and ask “do you think this is an effective strategy?”

          I just asked him “do you think that would be effective?” No answer yet but I will just keep being neutral Nellie and ask questions.

          So yeah when someone is depressed they love hearing “you know you should exercise more” Oh yeah that is a great idea I have never thought of. That will cure me and I am so happy you slathered your insane and unhelpful advice in my face.

          So let’s have some fun. Even if you don’t say anything to her face let’s work out what you can say in your mind so we can laugh our butts off at her. Where does she get off being all pious?

          So I will go first. Then you.
          Someone says to me, someone who has never lost a child mind yet wants to offer helpful advice.

          Dumb@$$ person: your son charles is in a better place.

          Me: oh yeah. I tell you what let’s send one of your children to “a better place” and after a week you let me know how wonderful that is. If it’s so great surely you don’t want him hanging out down here on earth mucking up your life.

          There is no better place for my son than right here on this earth where I can hug him and hold him. Period.

          Ok. What idiotic thing did she say and then let’s have at it. Like she has ever endured one second of what you have. Like the most difficult thing she has ever faced is a broken nail in her wedding day and that was a disaster that brought her to tears.

          Go in. Let’s do this thang…..

          1. Geez. That guy who said he’d beat his kid should be investigated. And I can’t imagine ever saying anything about “better place” to someone who has experienced a loss. That’s truly meant to comfort the speaker, not the mourner. F— that. I’m sorry for the idiots.

            I caught myself in time. I came into my body. Into awareness and I was standing over the burner, heating a spoon. I said, “what the f— am I doing???” And turned off the stove, went over to the sink, and cooled down the spoon and put it away.

            What she said wasn’t horrendous. It wasn’t abusive. It’s just really unaware and makes me feel shame because I already feel so defective.
            So when she tells me I can manage the wounds just fine and if I run into problems, I can go see my doctor and adds that I can manage my meds just fine and fill my med sets just fine.
            Mind you, she’s seen me 3 times now. I never even wanted a home health nurse to come but my doctor felt I needed it. The first time she filled them. Incorrectly, I might add. Some meds got left out, some were in night, when they should be in morning, etc. I didn’t discover this til several days of taking them and something wasn’t right and then I noticed a morning med in the night container. Then I tried to fix it but did it wrong. It was another couple nights til I realized I fixed it wrong and got it right that time.
            The next time I filled them, and she observed. She had to stop me from accidentally adding a medication twice. But sure. I’m having no trouble at all.

            So she comes today, right? And, btw, had said all that in a phone conversation the night before.

            At first it just stung and I felt shame, so the wall went up, where I pull inside and don’t engage, and hope they’ll go away.
            So she came. I could barely even keep my eyes open or get out much of a sentence.

            Of course, now that it’s night, everyone is tensing up and doesn’t want to sleep. Add that to the pain I’m in…

            But, anyway, she asks if we can fill the set. I said I’m just going to do it my way. A dose at a time. Which she took to mean only take one med. I was confused but I think I managed to communicate that I would go back to taking one dose of morning meds each morning and the same with night, instead of trying to fill a week at a time because my focus has been crap for months.
            I didn’t say any of that. Just that I would do it one dose at a time.
            She said I needed to take my meds and “it’s just a matter of doing it. Right?”
            But it was her tone. It was the context in the larger conversation and how she’s talked to me every time she’s been here. The way she keeps implying in tone and words (every time) that I just need to try harder.

            Then she asked about bandaging. I said it’s fine. I can do it. She asked how they looked. I said fine. I’m not actually sure how they look. I can’t remember when I changed them.
            She asked if there was any new SH. I said I was fine. But you and I know what the definition of that is.

            She told me it was her last visit. I said “ok”. I guess she said goodbye. Got up and walked out.

            I was relieved but then a part came up and we ended up crying.

            The thing is… I don’t know what I would have liked to say to her. I just want to crawl in a hole.

      2. I need help. I’m not doing well. There is just so much going on, on so many levels. I need sleep like crazy. I took an extra pill the last couple of nights to try and help sleep. It helped some but not enough. I need to take more. For context, I have been on more of this med in the past. It’s safe for me to take lore. It won’t kill me. I need sleep so bad. I’m spiraling. I will take more tonight and send an email to my prescriber and let her know what I’m doing.

        I have had a certain level of housing instability for like, 8 months. I got a message from a nonprofit of sorts that has been helping wanting to talk about it. This is a very convoluted, complicated situation with a former therapist who became my boss in this nonprofit. It always completely dysregulates me. The complexities of our relationship, the end of that nonprofit, everything. It seriously makes me struggle. Suicide-level struggle. I guess this is the emotionally naked blog, huh? After a week of no sleep, getting that message was awful timing. In 6 months time I may be homeless. The flashbacks I’m having are awful. The pain I’m in is awful. It hurts so bad. And then… yup. I drank. I thought it would take the suicidal edge off. And it did at first. But then we started having flashbacks and sobbing. The stuff that happened . I’m not sure how to heal from. I saw my therapist today. I only kinda remember it. She’s out next week. I do see a psychologist that I see at least once a month next week. I just need to keep hanging on. Get some sleep and hang on. I probably need to get rid of the liquor. I don’t know if I can by myself. I didn’t drink for nearly a week. I’m trying. I burnt myself. I don’t know. It’s all really confused. Maybe tonight I’ll call that helpline. I mean, we already burbed, so why bother, right? Maybe I’m better off just taking the extra pills and sleeping.

        1. Well, I took extra pills and slept a bit more but had awful nightmares. I’m so so tired.

          But I got up this morning and dumped the liquor down the drain. I find myself sad but I know that it messes me up. I need it to stop. So don’t entirely regret that decision. Iy wasn’t an impulse. I just needed to work up the ability to do it.

          1. I’m sorry I missed so many comments. I hope you didn’t feel abandoned. I’m traveling internationally so I’m very tired and dysregulated. You sound like you’ve had quite a go of it. Please tell me you are still alive. I’m not holding anything against you and yes, it’s an emotionally naked blog. No judgment. You’re still here and that alone is a freaking mirable give what you have been through. Deep breath. I’m listening. I did read one of these but couldn’t log in from where I was to reply. (The signal wasn’t strong enough.)

            1. Hi. Yes, I’m alive.

              I’m glad to know that you were/are traveling. I did wonder… I thought maybe you might be or just busy but there’s always that nagging voice that says,
              “See? You are too much. You wrote too much. You’re too neurotic. You don’t try hard enough and everyone knows it and is sick of you. You’re too needy and a drain.”
              I was trying to retain a grip on reality and other possibilities. But I also was unable to think clearly.

              On day 10 I finally slept solidly. Sure, I still woke up several times but I fell back asleep. And I had crazy, scary dreams but that’s par for the course. I woke up (very) early morning and could tell that my nervous system was wiring back up again. So I took an anti-anxiety med and that helped. I was able to communicate with my psych prescriber and she ok’d using more of one of my antidepressant/sleep meds. Less than what I took that one night, though. So I’m following her instructions now.

              I’m still pretty tired today and I don’t feel well. I think I may be dehydrated. I haven’t been able to do much self-care, and the last week+ is a blur.
              Some things stand out, though. Like that nurse. And other stressors that I’ve yet to find an answer to.

              My therapist was amazing through all of this. I’m bummed that she’s out next week but I know that therapists need breaks and I’m glad that she takes them. If she didn’t, it wouldn’t be good for her or her clients.

              And you’ve been amazing. And another friend of mine. Plus a couple other providers and team members who reach out to me and are trying to help me settle.

              I don’t feel like I can settle. My housing seems to be far from permanent and in 6 months I may have to figure something out again. I just moved 6 months ago. I am freaking out because right now, I don’t have any good answers. I’m on disability. I get less than $1000 a month. With the cost of living and insane rent around here… I’m afraid that I’m going to end up homeless.

              As for you, dear lady. I hope that you are taking good care of yourself. Please please get some rest and take good care of yourself!!! It’s sooo important!!

              Deep breathing is definitely a good one for dysregulation. I also find other grounding exercises to be very helpful. But I know that you know a lot about this kind of stuff and wouldn’t presume to share what I know unless that is welcomed.
              I also know, from personal experience, how difficult it can be to use coping skills when dysregulated.
              I have a hunch that you have a better grasp on that than myself. But indeed, do take care of yourself.

              And don’t worry about me. As often as I want to (or parts of me) want to die, somehow or other, we keep hanging on.
              I did get very close to doing something. Methods (ones that we have narrowed down, rehearsed in our heads, and researched carefully) kept flitting through my head, unbidden. And a few parts were very seriously considering a method that we can’t help but have the means for. It’s unavoidable. I really had to restrain them to keep from getting out of my chair and going and — well, I would get as far as standing, maybe taking a couple of steps, and then forcing myself to sit back down. I knew that I didn’t really want that. I also believed that they didn’t really want that.

              The last time I drank was that day, and it was to drive the thoughts away. I was hoping that if I could decrease the emotional intensity that everyone inside could calm down. It worked at first, but then some flashbacks and intrusive memories started, that happened this time of the year, and the desire to die and hurt ourselves became very strong.
              I was really discombobulated. Between the lack of sleep and the alcohol, I must have ended up burning myself because I have a new wound.
              There’s been a lot of self harm these past 6 months. So much. I had gone 2 years without. And then bam. Damn it.

              I’m wondering where in the world you are! Haha! I imagine that I shall hear from you after you are back home, settled, and rested. I wish you good and safe travels.

              1. I am relieved and I worried you would think “I am too much.” You are not. A lot has happened but you survive. How long are your episodes of suicidal thoughts? Twenty minutes is typical. And it usually has peaks where you want to end it (these last 60-90 seconds or so) and then back to ambivalence.

                I am almost in sp. abbreviating it for safety reasons.

                1. Thank you for saying that I’m not too much. I struggle to trust. Especially relationships. But I will try to believe you. Thank you for caring.

                  I struggle with time. Tracking time is very difficult for dissociatives. But I do know it can be hours or even intense for days or weeks. It depends on the triggers that are bringing those feelings on. Right now I have a number of triggers happening. I feel a lot of confusion internally when I try to recall the shortest length of intense suicidality. It’s different for different parts. They find this question extremely confusing. And then my head starts to really hurt from the intensity of amount of parts at the front plus switching plus dissociation. I want to answer your question but I don’t know how. It’s weird. Then I start fighting trancing. That gives me information. Some of this is due to conditioning by those who harmed us. Which I knew already. There’s suicide conditioning and return conditioning and conditioning on levels and in ways that I don’t yet know or understand. Everything is just too fragmented. I know enough to have a grasp on what happened to me and some who were involved. To know some of the things done and the horror of it. But I don’t have a complete picture, by far. It’s like snapshots, gifs, previews. and short films. It leaves a lot of questions. A lot of conditioning has been coming up. It’s not unexpected, considering this time of year. I’m feeling. Yikes. I can’t talk anymore. Hush. Hush. Don’t talk.

                  1. That is fair enough. Most can’t really track their trauma in the right order. That is typical of trauma. It took me a long time to piece together the police car talk when they told us of Charles’s death. It also sounds like some of your personalities don’t want to tell either but it’s common. Not to know the length of time.

                    I am very jet lagged. Very tired.

                    1. I understand. You probably need to sleep for 3 days! Sounds like a busy trip. I hope that you get some good rest.

  2. That’s certainly something to consider.

    Yes, I believe it does help me to have a “sounding board”. And this “dialogue ” between us is very reflective. I haven’t really gone back and read what I’ve wrote thus far but perhaps I will.

    May I ask you a question? What helps you to cope? Specific tools, if you don’t mind.

    1. I do a few. Making sure I connect and don’t isolate. I use the DBT skill “opposite action” for that. So when I don’t want to go my alter ego says “you know you need to go right? So let’s break this down so you get there.”

      I break things down into micro steps. Back when I didn’t want to get out of bed after losing charles and face the day without him on this earth I would say “annemoss just put your feet in the floor.” The. Give myself one more step. I couldn’t do the whole cycle of the morning routine without feeling overwhelmed so I broke it down so I’d feel less overwhelmed.

      Jan and Feb are hard for me and this year especially as my husband is as out of town that whole time working on site. I also lost my mom a little over a year ago. So I made myself get out and walk in the freezing cold and try to get walk buddies who also wanted to hibernate. The entire walk with no company is too much and boring so I broke it down too. I would be out 2-3 times of day on mini walks including one after dinner. That helped a lot. I sometimes create routines because there is comfort in those.

      I have a huge toolbox now but those area few. Obviously writing and I write everywhere. Little pieces of education.

      Does that help?

      1. Yeah.

        I guess I do some of that. Break things gown into manageable steps. Some days that’s the only way. And picking and choosing. I ask myself what is the most important today. And if it’s a bad day, I need to practice grace toward self. I can only do so much and it’s ok to take care of myself. I struggle to do this but I need to.

        I’m not super great at forcing socialization. Sometimes I do. I’ve really struggled with that these last 6 months.

        I’m sorry that January and February are so hard. I do understand. I’m so sorry about your son and mom. That’s a lot to carry.

        Walking is something that helps me but it really is hard to motivate oneself, isn’t it? I’ve yet to find a walking partner. I think that would help.
        I’ve qualified for some caregiving services. I feel embarrassed to be at this point and have hope that perhaps I can improve and be able to care for myself better.
        But I am still grateful to receive help. It hasn’t started yet. I found someone who I think will work out well, it’s just getting through red tape.
        I’m hoping that she might go walking with me.

        It was a hard day today. My startle response was kicked off multiple times today and my pain flared up.
        I also had therapy and had a pretty bad dissociative episode.
        I don’t know what all happened. My therapist is going to send me a summary of the session and we’ll talk about it next week.
        I can remember that she was really helpful, helping me to get “back”, as it were.

        I really hate it when this happens. I can’t just make myself ground.
        I think I went pretty deep. It took hours to truly feel present… well, as much as I ever do… I never feel completely real. I hate it. I so hate it. I wish I knew how to feel real. But, anyway. After I was at home a couple of hours I finally started feeling more present.
        But yeah. The pain levels were high. Headache, my whole body. So much adrenaline and stress.

        1. I do think the emotional turmoil exacerbates the physical pain. I’m so sorry you’ve had to deal with the condition you have.

          As for walking it does help to have a partner and I have people I call on or they call on me. The issue is they bail about 60% of the time. It’s not personal. It’s someone’s ankle, or back or family issue or symptoms after having a treatment or a shot etc. I’m over 55 so I guess that’s to be expected. I go anyway and I guess I should be glad that I rarely have anything to stop me. I don’t get sick much even though I’m a brain tumor survivor. I have to be very intentional about human interaction since I work at home. Zoom doesn’t cut it and I need to be around people at least once a day. But it’s easy to get lazy.

          Usually in recovery, there are times when you revert. It always does feel like failure. But honestly from what I have read that you’ve written your progress is remarkable. I think it will be a while before you can see that because you are in the middle of it. It also sounds like you have developed some compassion for yourself and know how to reserve energy for top priorities on difficult days.

          I think it’s OK to qualify for some care. You don’t have a lot of history of being cared for so it’s going to be, or already is, probably hard for you to accept that. At least that’s my assumption. Do feel free to correct me or clarify….

          1. Yes, I agree that emotional struggles can contribute to physical pain. Certainly, having the fight/flight/freeze kicked off at a moments notice, multiple times a day has a very real physical effect. Adrenaline flooding the body, stress response, hyper alertness, etc. My muscles tighten up and it takes awhile to come down. It affects my GI and everything.

            I’ve been told about the “Window of Tolerance”. It makes a lot of sense. As a trauma survivor my window is pretty narrow. I’m usually bouncing between the two ends.
            Hopefully, with more work, I can expand my window.
            I think I have a tendency to rely on outside things to bring me into my Window. Reassurance, alcohol, NSSI (I know that this seems counterintuitive to many but there’s a very real, if short, physical release), eating disorder behaviors, etc.
            All of it to either calm my body or mind, or feel a sense of control (which calms me), or to feel that I’m ok because someone says so.
            Although, it’s not always easy to believe.

            I have received some care, but yes. It is very hard to receive. And very hard to ask for.

            I usually let things go way too long before I speak up and say that I need help.
            I’m afraid of being judged or hospitalized or just not understood.
            I want to be able to handle it and figure it out on my own. I feel angry with myself and like a failure. Like I’m not a normal adult. I feel defective and inferior. And it’s really hard to trust.

            I have also recently lost a couple of longtime trusted relationships. Both losses were traumatic but the circumstances were different.
            One was a person who I had trusted more than almost any other changing in some pretty dramatic ways. And she can’t see it. The relationship was no longer safe for me.
            It broke my heart and I struggle to let it go. I feel a lot of loyalty. It’s hard for me to distance myself, which I need to for my own mental health.
            The other was my doctor, who was suddenly no longer at the clinic. We’d worked together for a long time and I trusted her a lot. It wasn’t her fault and there are no ill feelings but, yeah. It’s a painful loss. It makes it hard to trust again.

            That’s amazing that you’re a brain cancer survivor. That must have been an intense journey.

            It’s definitely difficult to stay connected. Sometimes Zoom is enough for me. I like to connect but feel tired afterward and want to be alone.

            I’m glad that you make yourself connect with people. That’s so important.

            I had someone over today. It was mostly a nice visit.
            A little stressful, though, and I found myself reaching for the alcohol.

            As much as I want it, I think I will not buy any next month. We’ll see if I can do it.
            I’m not an alcoholic but I know that it would be far too easy for me. I really don’t need another thing to overcome but oh, how tempting it is!

            1. A lot of people us both those things to cope. I did what you mentioned. I got rid of it. I wasn’t drinking but I had had lunch with a guy whose child had died 7 years prior to charles and he said he had to drink everyday to manage it. He was no further along than I was and it looked like it had kept him from processing it and finding a life. So I had lunch with a mom and she was talking about vacation and all she normal things and i decided it would be too easy to slip in that hole. I wanted an escape from the agony so bad. But instead i just sat with those moments because the intensity doesn’t last but 60-90 seconds. And it would light and I would have to go distract myself. That became my process and what drove me because I am so goal oriented is that I didn’t want any to be in that really raw part any longer than I had to be. It was so emotionally devastating. I can’t say this is anyone else’s formula and situations are different for everyone and I am not about to pass judgment. Because I feel sure had it been in the house it would have been very tempting to get a break. Besides that alcohol triggers massive migraines, which triggers nausea, which leaves me dehydrated and I have to go to the ER for fluid replacement. I really pay and that’s only after two drinks!

              As for the brain tumor it was benign but in a malignant area of the brain. So not cancer. Thank god. But still a lot of surgery, gamma knife radiation. I have trouble eating and swallowing, almost deaf in one ear, balance issues and only one vocal cord. Surgery gave me my voice back. Still kind of raspy but I will take it. Twenty years before we could get rid of it finally.

              The truth is you are managing what you can as best you can and there will be things you do in the process you aren’t proud of. Like all of us. Just reading all this I have recognized how far you’ve come and how hard you are working at it.

              1. Sitting with pain is no easy thing. It took a lot of courage and tenacity for you to do that. And it would seem that it did contribute to your progress through the process. I admire that. I need more of that.

                I know that I really do need to knock off the alcohol.
                Last night proved that. I had 2 drinks and then, later, things happened and someone inside came up and self harmed.
                I am noticing enough of a link between SH and alcohol.
                And I know that it is a depressant. That’s definitely not something I need.
                I thought about pouring it down the drain but can’t quite bring myself to. Others inside immediately get upset and argue for keeping it.
                If I consider the full implications of this… because I have DID, I’m basically giving alcohol to more people than just myself. Some of them kids.
                Huh. That’s kinda sobering. I’m going to have to think about this some more…
                I haven’t always drunk this much. It’s been more in the last 6 months that it’s been a problem. I knocked it off, briefly, about halfway through that but then started up again.
                I keep telling myself, “after this bottle. I won’t buy anymore. Maybe that’s true. Maybe I won’t. Maybe.
                It’s a choice that I have to make, isn’t it? I need to tell myself “no”. I need to stop and refuse the temptation. Just like with SH. Just like with so many things.
                I didn’t drink on Thursday. It had been a rough session and I felt it would be risky to drink. So I know that I am capable of not doing it.
                I’m not so deep into it that I need further intervention. But that means that I need to stop soon.

                Your brain tumor journey sounds intense. I’m glad that you very literally got your voice back.

                You are a survivor, too, in so many ways. You get it. The fight. The journey. The need to face the Thing, whatever it is, and work through it. You certainly set a good example.

                That’s what I hope for. It brings some kind of… purpose, out of the pain. To be able to reach a hand out to others who struggle and tell them that they can do it, too.

                1. By nature, I tackle things head on. And I knew if I sat with it, it wouldn’t last forever. 60-90 seconds. I didn’t want to stay in that raw part forever. It was so unbearable and I have never felt such pain emotionally and physically. Keep in mind, I had parents who loved me, not perfect, but not your situation. So my formative years weren’t a horror show and that allowed me to develop resilience and coping strategies.

                  If I had grown up in a trauma household, my synapses would have been pruned and I would be in ‘fight or flight mode’ so often it would be a state of being. So you are actually learning not to be that but your brain’s wiring has to have time to create new pathways. That’s hard. Overwhelming. Painful. Confusing and I think there are times you can’t find a break from it or someone comes up and interrupts progress. But you are making progress. What’s more you have been persistent enough to find the right help.

                  You are right that alcohol can become a problem and a really big one. Would you be willing talk to your therapist about it?

                  I had not even thought of this….

                  “If I consider the full implications of this… because I have DID, I’m basically giving alcohol to more people than just myself. Some of them kids.
                  Huh. That’s kinda sobering. I’m going to have to think about this some more…”

                  Again, I’m not judging. I’ve not had your horrific experience. I have no clue what I’d do in your situation

                  1. Thank you for your grace. It is very hard to change brain pathways but I know that it can be done. I just watched a talk on that today from a neuroscientist.

                    What makes everything so dang confusing is that… I believe that my parents loved me to some extent, in certain ways, as they were able to. I believe they had their own trauma and dissociation and… believe me, I am by no means making excuses for them. But I’ve worked through enough anger to see things from a broader perspective. To distance myself from black and white and embrace grey.
                    My parents bear a great deal of responsibility. It is true. Just as it is now my responsibility to work through my issues, especially any that could be abusive. To be very honest with myself, even when it hurts. Because I don’t want to continue any patterns.
                    But it sure makes it confusing because not every single memory is a bad one.
                    My brain (like all brains, I believe) likes patterns, an ability to logically divide things up and make sense of them. It helps me see things sometimes, but that can also get me stuck, because some things cannot be made sense of. There’s a point where acceptance (that not everything can be understood, that what happened was bad but it happened) and finding a way forward is more important.
                    But I do feel confusion, especially my inner children, about my parents, grandparents, and other relatives.
                    The generational abuse on both sides of my family goes back pretty far, from what I’d gleaned from years of listening to family stories and observing patterns of behavior.
                    I feel like it’s important to see the situation in its entirety. What happened was awful. That… there’s really no words for how truly horrific it was.
                    And I live with that daily. Flashbacks, triggers, nightmares, and yes, my fight/flight/freeze activating frequently. So many tv shows and movies will trigger flashbacks. I have to stop watching or speed through scenes. But the damage will already be done. The memory and emotion already triggered.
                    Thank God for neuroplasticity and the hope that with therapy and possibly EMDR (this must be done very carefully with DID. Yikes. Thankfully, my therapist knows, and I am relying on her guidance) I have hope for healing.
                    If I didn’t have that, I couldn’t go on. If I felt that this would be the rest of my life, at this level of healing but no more… I would lose heart.
                    But I know others who are further along than me in this work.

                    We form a chain of hope, you know. Each forming a stronger link in front of the other. Cheering each other on and showing that it can be done. It has been done.
                    We validate each other and there is something precious in honoring what each has endured and holding hope for each other and ourselves.

                    I have had to find that in my life. To keep searching for that support and the opportunity to give it as well. There is so much meaning in that.
                    I have had to learn and grow and endure the pain of learning social skills, boundaries, and just everything the hard way.
                    It can really sting or even seriously hurt to be told or realize the things about myself that I need to change but it truly is the only way forward.

                    I don’t want a trauma disorder to define me. I do want to use it as part of my victory story and I passionately want to spend my life helping others along this path but I am so much more than what happened to me.

                    It may take up a lot of my focus right now…. and I feel shame for that. But I also know that so many other survivors feel that same shame and if any one of them (and plenty have) were standing in front of me expressing that sense of worthlessness, I would tell them that there is absolutely no shame and that the work they are doing is crucial and praiseworthy. And so I know, logically, that I must apply this to myself. It’s not easy in practice but… if I don’t do as I preach, I make myself a hypocrite. So… I suppose I must :eyeroll: show myself grace.

                    I know that there will come a day where I have enough healing that I can handle life better and focus more of my energies outward. I wish that day were today, and I do what I can now, but if I don’t do this in the right order, it actually slows things down.
                    I’ve gotten things out of order before. And while there was growth and joy in it, certainly meaning and purpose, it was too soon. It’s hard for me to admit that. And I felt like such a failure. But it is what it is.

                    Oh, and I did email my therapist and tell her that I need to deal with the alcohol issue. I also talked to my doctor.
                    Damn it. Sometimes I wish I wasn’t so forthcoming. It would be nice to not tell on myself and drink in happy secrecy.
                    But then, it would be a false happiness, wouldn’t it?
                    There’s a tv show that I like, “Endeavour”, where a character says, “alcohol makes a good servant but a lousy master.”
                    I like that statement. It’s very true. The occasional drink is one thing but if it becomes several times a week (or more) or in secret or you know in your heart you’re just escaping… then you’re in a trap.
                    I know it and I’m not willing to let it wrap its chains around me. I have enough things to overcome.

                    I still can’t pour it out but I didn’t drink tonight. I wanted to but I didn’t. What is sad is that some of those internally who like it are some of the kids. They want the escape. The dulling of pain. We need to find better ways.

                    And I did say to my flatmate that I think we both might have a problem. I think she’s sitting with that.
                    The last thing I want is for me to give her permission to go down a bad path. I’d rather not stumble along it together, enabling each other. I’d rather choose a better path and hope that she will, too.

                    1. You ability to tell on yourself is actually rare and remarkable. It shows how desperately you are trying to improve and not hold back information that mind hinder that recovery.

                      “I have had to learn and grow and endure the pain of learning social skills, boundaries, and just everything the hard way.”

                      When you write that I had to say that it’s that part that can often seem insurmountable and overwhelming at times and push someone toward temptation and escape. I wonder, and understand I am not a therapist but asking really, if that might be an opportunity to set a priority or carve out a smaller goal or take those micro steps. I don’t know the answer to that. But I think I tend to do those things but I will have to mull that over some. It just made me think.

                      Let me know what your flatmate says. I am curious about that.

  3. Hi. Sorry it’s been a few days. I went to the ER on Friday. I was there all day. I was pretty tired yesterday but then.. I suppose I am most days.

    Yes, I did tell my therapist that I looked up the subject that brought me to this page.
    To be honest, on this occasion, it was curiosity based on something I saw on a tv show.
    That being said, I have looked at handguns from time to time, over the last few years, when in a desperate state.
    At these times, I have found my way to “pro suicide” websites. They are getting harder to find. Something I’m glad of when I’m not suicidal and frustrated by when I am.

    I have carefully researched best methodology. Gun placement, caliber, etc.
    I have looked at websites legally selling guns that you pick up locally in stores.
    But, though tempted, I have never purchased one.
    I have a couple of other methods that I have researched/planned well.
    We keep them filed in the back of the head, just in case.
    One method, I have never gotten all that I need for it. The other, it’s impossible to not have on hand, what is needed.

    At times we have stood, items in hand, someone inside desperate for release from the torture of life.
    But I have reminded them, or others inside have, of the reasons not to.
    Or even, if it’s hard to think of a reason just telling ourselves to wait. One more day or week. Something. Anything. And so we do.

    Self harm is a lot more challenging to postpone. Especially since there is a myriad of reasons why we do it.
    I’ve had times when I have been able to abstain. Even for a couple of years.
    The urges do not leave but we are able to not act on them.
    But then something will happen that exceeds our ability to cope with and we succumb.
    If the pattern of the last 4 years indicates anything, it then takes us months to get it back under control.

    I so struggle with it. I hate it and yet… I know that it doesn’t make sense to a lot of people but it helps me cope. With so much. It’s only for a moment that I experience relief and then, depending on what kind of damage, can be a hellish recovery.
    And when you add the layer of dissociative division within self… it gets really complicated really quickly.

    It’s truly not much different than those who cope with alcohol or drugs but then find themselves enslaved by the thing that they use to escape pain. The consequences can be steep but there is a physical and psychological addiction and desire for release from pain that makes it really hard to give up.
    Sometimes we find ourselves falling into one to lessen another but there’s always something we’re going to in order to get a break from pain of one form or another.

    My hope is that with continued work with my therapist and the “team” of various providers who are helping me, that we can change this trajectory and gain positive traction towards a better life.

    And I hope the same for anyone who finds themselves reading these words.

    Hang in there. It’s worth the fight. And remember to show yourselves a bit of grace.

    1. Where you at the ER for an attempt? Or something else? I love this that you wrote- “It’s truly not much different than those who cope with alcohol or drugs but then find themselves enslaved by the thing that they use to escape pain. ” I understand self harm only after talking with those who have lived experience for many years. I get it now but at first it was such a mystery.

      When young people have reached out about self harm and wanting to stop, I ask them if they are willing to move the implement they use out of the house or put it somewhere far like an attic. That puts time between thought and action. They will usually do a self harm safety box. I also tell loved ones that lapses are part of the process. But surprisingly many do put that implement elsewhere or get rid of it all together when that’s possible.

      And I hope you don’t buy a firearm. Because that puts “the thing” too close. And you know the episodes of suicidal crisis have a beginning and an end and if you don’t have that which you use to end it all, then you can’t use it. However, imagining how you might end it sometimes is a coping strategy that keeps people alive. It puts to rest the cycle of thinking so to speak if that makes sense.

      1. Yes, as much as it seems counterintuitive, having a well thought out plan seems to allow us to not hyper focus on eliminating our life.

        I had to go to the ER because I am having a serious physical health issue that is a complication of a chronic one.
        It’s exacerbated by the eating disorder that I struggle with. I’m working with a dietitian that knows how to help a “system”. To work with complex trauma because all of that truly complicates the whole thing.
        I’ve struggled with this since I was a teenager (but never got treated because they didn’t take me seriously) and I want to be free of it but… it’s so multifaceted.
        Even for “singletons” as “dissociatives” sometimes refer to individuals with one personality, it is complex.
        Divide that into groups of personalities who do what they do for reasons that make a lot of sense to them and that they feel like they need for survival… yikes.

        I’ve been drinking again. Last night and tonight. More tonight. I know that I shouldn’t. I’m not a full blown alcoholic but do I use it as escape? Absolutely. Do I drink alone? You bet. I prefer it that way. Do I think about it even when I reluctantly choose to abstain? Indeed, I do.
        I have used alcohol on and off since my teens. It certainly was the only substance that I had access to.
        And the harder things (life) are, the more tempting.
        I probably had too much tonight. I carry it rather well, but I know.
        I’m having to delete and correct the spelling of every other word.
        It’s just so tempting. Between the physical pain and the emotional, I seek ways of escape.

        Even being a Christian, I struggle. Don’t ever let any christians pretend that we are above it.
        God does give us strength but this life is still hard and He never promises otherwise.
        I could turn to Him for help and He has helped me immeasurably. I truly would not be alive without Him (I do not say this lightly) and I would have absolutely no reason to resist suicide if it weren’t about submitting to His will for my life. But I don’t always turn to Him. Sometimes I turn to other things.
        I know He forgives me but sometimes I have to live with the consequences.
        I will suffer tomorrow. Probably, later tonight I will sober up and wish I wasn’t. I won’t go drink more but I will want to. I will suffer from consequences of alcohol in relation to some of my physical disorders tomorrow. I will know that I am damaging my health and I will care but it will still be hard to not imbibe again. I think about it every day. I debate each evening. Sometimes, most times, I resist. Others, I say, “to hell with it.”

        It was a rough weekend (not an excuse, but context).
        Not just being at the ER all day on Friday (which included a highly triggering and painful rectal exam. (There. I said it. Thank you, alcohol, looser of “lips”/minds/fingers.) I have been bleeding rectally for a week. Not insignificant amounts, with large clots. The pain is bad.
        The alcohol contributes to the problem along with restricting (ED stuff).
        I have had IBS-C my whole life. My mother had it, her father had it – Generational trauma. The gift that keeps giving.) but other struggles this weekend.

        Including insane emotional swings: rage (actual barely contained true rage), depression (severe, bleak – .”darkness made manifest”, hopeless, despairing – “let me die, God” depression), anxiety (climbing the walls, startling at every sound. It’s usually about this bad. That’s how trauma rewired my system. Though, thanks to the hope of Neuroplasticity, all is not lost. But… worse than baseline.), and the nightmares.
        Oh, the nightmares. I live with those every night. Not only my fears but those of every part of me.
        Then there’s the trauma dreams. Distinctly different and terrifying, yet they give me information.
        Every. Single. Fucking. Night. But they’ve been worse this weekend.

        I went to bed last night, asking God what my problem was – why so much more rage than usual and inability to calm it. I apologized for it – as it was directed (in my heart, not in action or word. I NEVER want to make others a victim of my behavior. I would burn the shit out of myself and carve myself to ribbons before doing so. And I have.) toward certain individuals.
        I asked His forgiveness, hoped that the next day it would be better and tried to sleep. Hours (sleepless) later I arose to use the bathroom and discovered that my period had started. Ah. Of course.

        Why does this take me by surprise every month, my entire life? It’s almost a relief to understand that it’s the damn hormones. I can manage that. However I have to. The damn hormones.
        I go dark every month. Always have. I pity my mother. She had 4 daughters who, at one point, were all teenagers at the same time. 2 years apart each. Ha! My poor mother.

        We were homeschooled, too. Easier to keep watching adult eyes off of abused kids, you know.
        Ours was a truly miserable home.

        And though I grew up with a truly negative view of home-schooling, in my adult life, I have met a few who did it right and I assure you, I am the harshest of critics.

        We were not well schooled. I taught myself most of what I know.
        Mom was not a gifted teacher, which I do not blame her for.

        I grew up trying to protect her and care for her emotions, and being forced to care for father. We all were. I ceased doing so for him as a teen. I had his number.
        But mom? She held my heart. The only reason I did not run away, (and oh, how I wanted to… I even went on dry runs) is because I couldn’t do that to HER. I couldn’t add to her burden.
        I know now, that as an adult she had responsibility to not let her children be harmed, and it took many years for me to see that, but I also see that she was victimized, too. Abused and gaslit by my father. And still is.

        So yes, I was homeschooled and under-educated but there are those who do a proper job of it and properly socialize their children, also.
        I had to learn it all the hard way. Still am.

        I know that the alcohol steals my brain cells. It bothers me. Yet not enough to stop.

        I think that the concussion took some also, but there’s not much that I can do about that. They’re almost cumulative, you know. I was never diagnosed with them, growing up (although, I know now that I had them) But the parents didn’t exactly take us to see doctors much.
        I started to advocate for myself as a teen. I instinctively knew that there was something wrong with me. Physically and emotionally. Lots of various issues.
        I didn’t get anywhere. Doctors didn’t take me seriously until the one I lost (neither of our fault) recently. She did. Took me seriously… found all sorts of stuff.
        Took the trauma history seriously, too. First doctor ever to do so.

        The “organization” (organized abuse) has doctors. But they hurt. They don’t help. They are very bad people.
        Yeah. I am not M. I am someone else within the system who is telling you about them. Be very careful. I must be very careful. Dangerous topic, it is. Dangerous. Bad guys. Very bad guys. Lots of power. You probably won’t believe me. People don’t like to believe that this is real but it is. People with power do lots to keep it hidden. But it’s real. And we are real. And there are a lot of other systems like us out there. People who have been hurt by the hidden powerful. This goes deep. But you probably won’t believe me. It’s easier for people to deny the truth than face it in its horrific ugliness. Anyway. I said what I wanted. Take it or leave it. It’s no less true. Bye.

        This is a hard time of year for us. Lots of anniversaries of harm done. Lots of people being harmed as we “speak”.
        So many shy from the truth. It’s easier for them. Or they’re part of the cover-up. You probably think that I am insane now. I guess… if I am to be emotionally naked… this is the truth of what I have lived with. The damage that I now fight to heal. Sometimes despite myself. A “push me – pull me” pursuit of life and death simultaneously. Trying to decide which will win.
        I’m pulling for life but damn, death is fucking enticing. To be released from all of it. Just everything. To finally be at peace. To be with my God.

        And I firmly believe that He does not condemn those whom die by way of suicide. I know this to the core of my being. I had a friend who killed herself, and in a dream with Jesus, I got to see her and get closure. She was happy and at peace, finally.

        This isn’t to advocate suicide. Otherwise, I wouldn’t be fighting for life.
        It’s to say, that for those who lose the fight, Jesus has His hand of compassion stretched out.
        He doesn’t delight in the loss of life but has compassion and understanding for it. He truly understands.
        I don’t use that to give myself permission. But it is a comfort, nonetheless.

        My friend is waiting for me. But she is also rooting for me to not let this beat me, and darn it… I have no intention of letting it, either. Otherwise, they win. And fuck them, right?

        Maybe I need to go sleep this off. I am definitely drunk. My vision is so blurry and every other words needs to be fixed. Haha! Yikes. I think I may have a problem…. no. I’m not ready to tell my therapist. Ooo! I just realized I need to pee really bad!!!

        1. When you do relent and drink is it an escape? Does it engage the others (DID)? I am hearing from one of them in this post. They get riled up too, I imagine since they were your protection. But I guess that varies. And your upbringing with not even school to give you a break. Holy shit that sucks. You survived the only way you knew how. I have to wonder what happened to your dad to make him such a monster. How are you feeling this morning?

      2. Oh, I also meant to say. I have removed just about everything I can from this place to keep myself safe from myself or others, internally. Unfortunately, there’s no way to make it completely hazard free, short of a padded room, if you will. I still have ways of hurt myself. Both burning and cutting. The cutting… nothing much could happen that would be too terribly damaging. I am currently a rather embarrassingly hairy beast, because no razors. For six fucking freaking infuriating months. Every time that I feel like I am starting to stabilize enough with self harm and can get my stuff back… well. Yeah. Anyhow, I can’t. But it’s the burning that’s the biggest problem.

        1. Others are often surprised by this. The fact that the person who harms themselves doesn’t want to and is willing to remove implements of possible self harm. And I hadn’t thought about legs and hairiness. I guess electric would not work so well and might also be dangerous. Going to get waxed….not too convenient, expensive. As you can tell I’m thinking out loud here. You brought up a good point, though. Where does someone struggling from self harm take care of hair removal?

          I’m still processing the last post. The picture of what you went through and still endure is more vivid now and I do understand and even feel your pain. Strangely not in a bad way. But more of an understanding way. You are doing the best you can. Good God you are working very hard at this.

          1. Obviously, not hard enough. I still screw up constantly. We did last night.

            I do drink to escape. Both physical pain and emotional.
            I can drink a certain amount and still be fairly in control and alert to others internally.
            But if I drink more than that, like I did last night, it’s much easier for other parts to get in control and do things and I am less aware or even unaware.
            That happened last night, too.
            It wasn’t because of our “conversation “.

            This part has a very specific reason for doing what she does and that makes perfect sense to her.
            She has been wanting to all week but I was able to say “no” and keep it from happening.
            I didn’t even think about any of that when I drank more last night.
            So she did come forward and act.
            I’m ok. It’s not that bad. At least, nothing I’m not used to. I can manage it.

            Usually, I can drink and use sense and not drink too much.
            Sometimes I will have a single drink each evening for several days in a row, depending on how I’m doing.
            When I’m doing a bit better or if my GI stuff is really flaring up, then I abstain. Sometimes when I drink too much I am fine. But sometimes someone else comes forward and hurts the body.
            Everyone (I think) inside is affected by the alcohol.

            As far as hair control goes… I wear long pants and shirts year round.
            My arms and legs are so scarred that I don’t want anyone to see them. And if I have fresh wounds, I definitely want to keep that hidden.

            I have learned, with a lot of work, to be open with some medical and mental health providers.
            As long as they don’t overreact.
            I want them to just help me keep an eye on the wounds and leave it at that.

            With the mental health providers, we’ll talk about it.
            Although, it takes longer for parts to be willing to talk, typically.
            I’ve been seeing my therapist for 6 months, roughly. I trust her and the system is getting there. I think that this part might be willing to talk to her this week but she feels suspicious. It just takes time.

            But back to hair control… I don’t think I could let someone wax me. That’s too much touch, body exposure, and fear of being judged because of scars. And the questions that people ask. Oy.
            So we avoid the body being seen as much as possible for multiple reasons.

            I usually just have to remain hairy until we get it (NSSI) back under control and everyone inside is back onboard with abstaining from NSSI and working hard to use other means of coping.
            We’ll get there. We have before. It’s just taking an infuriatingly long time this time.

            As for the father… as I said, the harm is generational. I believe he was harmed in similar ways to myself. I believe both of my parents are dissociative, as are my sisters.

            This is how it goes in organized generational harm families like ours. Some people remain in it and perpetrate the harm done to them onto the next generation.
            In these organized scenarios, it’s very hard to get away and get safe and work toward healing.
            Especially when, being dissociative, you don’t always know the full scope of what is happening until/if enough memories become clear.
            He is what he was made to be.
            There’s still choice involved, so he is responsible, but it is hellishly difficult to escape and undo the conditioning and everything.

            1. You have got to write a book. It will be very cathartic for you, painful for sure but that’s what a therapist is for. You have such an understanding and you are self aware even if you don’t have full self control. I thought I heard another voice who wanted to be heard.

              Short story. Right after charles died, 18 months really, we went with friend son a river cruise. I was still emotionally under water but was happy to follow along. A young lady came with her parents and she wore shorts. She had hundreds of little silver marks all over her legs. At first I didn’t know what they were but later in the week I just touched her shoulder and thanked her for showing her battle scars. And told her she was a survivor shedding shame. She smiled and said thank you.

              I am not advocating you do the same. I am not sure I could do the same. But I had never seen it done and I was like “damn she has guts.” Now from the looks of it her family life was nothing like yours and I don’t know her story. She obviously had one.

              Maybe start with a manicure to get a feel for the place. Just a thought. It depends on which is worse for you. The hairy or the waxing.

              And every recovery story has lapses and steps backwards and forwards. It’s usually kind of ugly and painful but that’s how the work gets done. You are doing it. And slip ups are not failures but part of the process. I am just damn grateful you have the therapist you do.

              1. I am, too. She’s amazing and… helps me to see myself slightly less harshly. I just wish the work went more quickly. I wish my parts would speak up more.

                It’s highly likely someone else slipped in to write a portion of my last message. That happens. You should see the journal that I write in. A bunch of different ways of writing or handstyles.

                For me, waxing would be worse. I can barely stand being touched. Certainly, not seen.
                There are a few people from whom a hug is a welcome thing. A very few.
                I tried a pedicure once. I wasn’t a fan.

                It certainly takes a lot of chutzpah to show the scars.
                I grew to a point where sometimes, I could allow the arms to be seen. But only in certain settings.
                The legs are harder but on rare occasion, I would allow them to show.
                I love to swim (though, poorly). Especially in nature. But if it’s crowded… I can’t always show them.
                It’s just too much. Kids stare and ask questions that are hard to answer. Adults stare or look away or sneer or hurry their children by.
                I just… don’t want to be seen as “that”.

                A book, eh? I don’t know about that. I don’t know that I have anything to say that others would like to read. And there are aspects of my trauma history that I have not gone into at all. Things that I don’t know if I could ever write in a book. It would be very scary. There are things that we have not even revealed to the therapist yet.

                You have to be careful what you say. You never know who is reading. Especially on a public forum or in a book. It might be dangerous. I’m not sure I could let that happen. I want to stay safe. Everyone has to stay safe. I don’t know what they would do.

                There are things that I do not know if people could handle hearing. Or they might utterly discount what I have experienced. It would not be the first time.

                One must be careful whom one trusts. Even those whom consider themselves trustworthy could bulk when hearing details. It would not be their fault. There are things that are hard to believe. Even for oneself.

                1. As far as a book you write it all but not necessarily publish it all. Graphic detail is too much and no one needs that grisly a picture painted and you don’t need to relive all of it. I know someone who wrote a book while she was seeing a therapist. And my friend Chris who wrote his kind of diary style. Not everything is in it and you have done a good job here of getting across what happened without grisly details. And I knew I was hearing from others. And it was interesting when I realized I was hearing from one of the others.

                  Whether you publish it or not I think you should write it. Go to a writing class. You have the talent and if you did go the publishing route it could act as someone else’s survival guide. But either way your progress is usually a bit faster when you write. And sometimes you have to take breaks because it is happening too fast. The processing of it all. I had to stop at one point for a whole month. But I needed it. Your journal will probably guide you. I had written so much I had forgotten in this blog. But it helps so much. I hate to see a talent like yours not be used. I feel honored you are using it here.

                  Do you write what you need to write and remove and edit later. At first it’s all about the ugly first draft. But in no way should you embark without the therapist support. Crucial given all you have survived

                  1. Sometimes I write something and then delete it or rewrite it.

                    I’m not terribly good at journaling.
                    Too often parts come out of every corner and it ends up an incoherent mess.
                    I do better if I am writing TO someone. Even if that’s just in my mind.
                    It removes me from some of the emotion of it. I sort of go into reporter mode. That doesn’t mean that I will feel no emotion but what I will feel seems more manageable.
                    I have to be really careful that things that come up… memory, flashbacks, nightmares, even emotional flashbacks, where I don’t always know what happened and something in current life is triggering the emotional flashback. And whoever holds that knowledge isn’t sharing.

                    My system – like most dissociative systems, is invested in keeping me from remembering. That was their job. The reason for their “creation”. To take the bad experience, live through it, and then hide it from me so that I could be at all functional.

                    I come up to barred doors in my mind or walled off sections that are guarded by parts that allow no access.
                    There are even certain parts contained within such places because they are deemed too unstable for the rest of us to allow them out. I have spoken very limitedly with them. I don’t know what they are all about.

                    I was not a happy child by any means because plenty of what I always remembered was bad enough.
                    But the experiences that were the stuff of horror novels… those were hidden from me until the first time I was living outside of my parent’s house. Then it started spilling out. And then, circumstances became that I had to return to that house for a couple of years. Which was death to me.

                    It was during that time that I ended up in ICU, for the first time, from a suicide attempt. And then, a year or so later I left and never lived there again.

                    I used to write a lot when I was younger.
                    One of the many potential careers that I was interested in was that of author. I wanted to write fiction. Then in my early to mid twenties I journaled a bit and I did a lot of spiritual writing.
                    But I’ve struggled to write consistently.

                    It’s the same with art. I’ve had times where I was prolific but for the last decade I have seriously struggled to find my creative spark.

                    I believe that when we are busy trying to hide from difficult emotions, we also suppress all emotion. Joy, peace, a sense of meaning, creativity, that spark of life.
                    But even knowing so… I struggle to engage with my own emotions. They frighten me. They are so intense.
                    And with so many alters… most of them with complex emotions…. it’s a lot and I have to stay safe.
                    I need to build up and improve my coping skills before I am safe to truly explore the entirety of my experiences.
                    I’m working on it. So is my therapist.

                    A writing class…. I could potentially see myself going to one. Maybe. Someday.
                    But right now I’m just trying to get a bit more stable.

                    It’s interesting that you say that writing sped up your process. That’s fascinating and certainly something to consider.

                    I’m blown away that you say that you are honored that I am writing here. I don’t quite know what to do with that. I struggle to… embrace positive feedback. But thank you for saying that and all of the other encouragement that you have been giving me. It’s actually been helping me. Thank you. You are very kind.

                    This reflective writing has also been of benefit to me.

                    I find it interesting that you are distinguishing distinct “voices” in my writing.
                    I’m aware that many parts are paying close attention to these exchanges. Especially in order to monitor and make sure that I do not say too much.
                    Except when we have been drinking… A few did pop up in my last message to express thoughts around sharing of details.

                    1. Maybe start your book by writing it to someone or copy and paste some of the words you have here. This is a vast repository of DID knowledge here. and childhood trauma and more. Of wishes to get better, fighting with suicide and more. My anger over how you were treated is matched by curiosity and fascination with what you have to say. It’s better than the book I am reading now which is a best seller!

                      I started this blog by writing every day. And there is a lot in the admin part that never got published because it didn’t make sense. And a lot that got published that makes no sense. A lot of it is sh*t but a lot of it is “Whoa, that’s pretty good. I wrote that?”
                      When you write every day a lot of it is garbage but you get better and better. What it does it helps you process, as you write you figure stuff out, you see patterns, it causes reflection…and healing. The page doesn’t cuss you out, tell you you suck but allows you to be angry, twisted, nuts, a mess and more. Most of all it’s a release. We might be alike in that it helped me have someone else read what I was thinking.

                      How many people come to this page? People who need to hear what you have to say. People who need to feel they are not alone. People who will see what you say as a survival guide. This is as safe a space as any. No one knows who you are, where you live, or even how old you are.

  4. Hi, thank you for responding. Thank you for reading all that I wrote. I know that taking in stories like this is no small thing. Thank you for that gift of yourself.

    Yes, I did know that you would read it all. I read through the whole comment section and saw that you were very responsive.

    I hope that my experiences might bring better understanding for those who have lost, those who are attempting to support, and maybe even those who are daring to hope for hope and haven’t fully committed to ending their lives.

    I know that things can get better. I know that everyone’s journey is so personal and unique. But that recovery is possible.
    I don’t have all of the answers. I’m still figuring it out for myself and trying to hang in there.

    I do process in several ways. I think a lot. I journal. I do speak with a few trusted individuals, some professional. A couple friends. All of these things together help me to understand myself better and sometimes others, too.

    Writing this and my previous message did help. It does help. Sometimes digging in helps me to connect with truth that I forget that I know. Or have my vision clear for a moment and grasp onto hope.
    Certainly, I have a tendency to descend into self hatred, self anger, frustration, impatience, shame, and disgust with where I find myself. I will believe that I should be doing better than I am, getting better more quickly, and overcoming. I blame myself and go to a very dark place.
    Writing like this allows me to take on the role of observer more than participant and I can connect with realistic expectations, or see progress made over years of work, or see the massive amount of life disruption in the last good while. It helps me to step away from self critic and access self compassion, even if but for a moment.
    At times an external person (ie. Therapist) offers their perspective on me and my situation and it sort of snaps me out of it. Feels like a bit of a shock. But hearing them say that I’m doing my best, working hard, and with everything that has gone on the struggle is understandable… it helps me pull out of that dark place.

    I haven’t called or texted this Thrive hotline yet. I haven’t decided if that’s what I want to do, the next time I’m close to hurting myself. There are layers of complexity with that, having a dissociative disorder. But there are time, especially at night, that I might consider giving it a try, since they don’t contact police. If it can help us not hurt the body then it might be worth the risk. Here is their website.

    Sometimes I would rather remain silent and deal with whatever personal fallout I have to deal with because I remained silent.

    Putting oneself out there is frequently risky. If one does not feel understood or even encounters resistance and rejection to one’s lived experience, it can do exponentially more harm and increase the desire to isolate and self-destruct.
    We have encountered much callousness from many within the medical and mental health industry. We are slow to trust.

    I was in a group several years ago, for survivors of extreme abuse. We learned and grew together for several years. The group ended but I am still connected to some of them.
    I was also part of a nonprofit that was birthed out of this. I volunteered there for another several years. 6 months ago it closed and threw me into chaos. I was also super burnt out at the time. I’ve withdrawn quite a bit since then.
    There is a messaging support group that I am a part of. Another group of survivors. I am able to talk on there sometimes or offer compassion to others that are struggling.
    There is a yearly conference put on by a nonprofit that helps complex trauma survivors. It’s a wonderful nonprofit and the conference is amazing. It can be attended in person or virtually. There’s a wide demographic of attendees, as well. I’ve made some friends through that.

    The mother is not a safe person. I love her dearly but… she’s very much gaslit by the father. While I believe that she loves us on whatever level she could allow herself to, she was quite depressed and emotionally distant/suppressed/muted. I think she was in survival mode, too. Yet so controlled by the father that she… stood by his side, despite his abuse.

    Some of my earliest memories are of trying to comfort her after he had left the house for the day. I spent much of my time, even into adulthood, trying to defend and protect her. And my sisters. It usually made things worse but I struggled to remain silent and just take or watch the abuse.

    The sisters chose the “family”, too, yet to a lesser extent, except for the oldest, who is very much like him. She harmed me, also.

    I spoke the truth to the family about the family. I called out the elephant in the room, pointed out the abuse and dysfunction and my fears for the next generation. And so, I was shunned, basically. Unless I recanted and got with the program.
    I couldn’t do it. I didn’t realize that day that I would lose my family. That I would never see my precious nephews and nieces again. But because I was trying to defend them and speak on their behalf, I could not recant. I would be betraying the truth and those sweet kids, if I “got with the program”.

    The other two sisters were confused, conflicted but staying in it. So even though they didn’t end our relationship, I had to get some distance for very real safety reasons that I cannot divulge on a public forum because it might be dangerous.

    A couple of years ago I reconnected with one sister who has distanced from the rest of the family. She was getting memories back and reached out for validation. Which I was able to give her. It’s slow going but she has a lot on her plate. As do I, so I understand.

    My therapist (we’ve worked together for 6 months now) is wonderful, and my dietitian (about the same length of time) is, too.
    I am currently experiencing a disruption in medical care. My former doctor was wonderful. She was the first doctor to help me sort out the medical stuff. She took me seriously and treated me with sensitivity and compassion. She’s no longer at the clinic. I’m heartbroken. I will never find a doctor like her again. There is a staff member there that I’ve known and worked with just as long. She’s advocating for me and trying to get me re-established at a “sister” clinic. We shall see.
    I have a couple good friends that I trust and talk to. We get together on occasion. One lives across country now but we video chat and that closes the distance. I do miss her hugs, though…
    I have a number of other friends. There has been a lot of disruption in this area of my life that happened about 6 months ago. It was devastating. I was more in the roll of supporter for them. I dearly love and care about them but I’m having to take a step back and focus on stability and building myself back up. I don’t have a lot of surplus at the moment. It’s difficult to get up everyday. But I do keep in some contact and offer what I can, though it’s more meager than I would like… I have largely been isolating for the last 6 months and I’m ok with that.

    1. You are definitely working very hard at this. And you are a good writer. Journaling has been a lifesaver for me.

      This is so well said. I am quoting you.

      “Writing like this allows me to take on the role of observer more than participant and I can connect with realistic expectations, or see progress made over years of work, or see the massive amount of life disruption in the last good while. It helps me to step away from self critic and access self compassion, even if but for a moment.”

      Have you found that isolating makes it worse? Do you exercise any skills to kind of push yourself out of that? So when I want or start to isolate I go to breaking things into micro steps or use the DBT skill “opposite action.” I wonder if your therapist has shared other skills and what has worked for you in the past. Thanks for answering all my questions. And I ask the isolation one because you are so knowledgeable and have a lot of self awareness. But the isolation is so dangerous as you know and finding the energy to get oneself out of that mode can be very challenging when motivation is so scant. So for my benefit and anyone else reading this.

      1. Isolation can be quite tricky. As an introvert, I require a certain amount of time alone in order to function well. I don’t often find myself lonely. But., introvert aside, I have to watch myself closely for signs that I’m isolating too much. I can get a little too comfortable with being alone. But that can have a nasty backlash with worsening depression, etc.

        I do reach out for support, at times. Or offer myself in that way to a friend.

        I do find it important to keep tabs on HOW much I’m isolating.
        Sometime I have to do the less comfortable thing and put myself out there.
        Have someone over for dinner (I do enjoy hosting) or meet for coffee or lunch.

        When I’m going through a time of increased struggle, my capacity is reduced.
        So, for instance, when I’m in a strong place I can cook for and have a dinner party for 10+ people (although, where I live now, I cannot do so. It’s another source of grief for me. The loss of my home. But I’m also grateful that I have a home).
        I enjoy this. One of the ways in which I nurture is through food. I love to cook. I try to be mindful of my guests, their dietary needs, and palates. Sometimes I make more than one version of a dish.
        I enjoy their companionship and showing my love for them, also. And I am happy but drained when they go home.
        The next day usually has to be a down day .

        When I’m not in a strong place, that number of people is overwhelming. Even if I know them all. I can have 2-3 people over but that’s about it.
        I thrive one on one. This is my favorite way to be with others.

        But indeed, any amount of socialization must be followed by alone time.

        In years gone by, I either didn’t have any friends or the kind of friends that I could do any of this with. So the isolation would become unhealthy. Dangerous, even.
        It can take a lot of work to break out of that pattern.
        Just like it takes a lot of work to focus on what is good in life, when the problems seem to shout so loudly.
        But both these practices are essential for recovery.
        My heart truly goes out to those who are isolated and don’t have people in their lives to care. It used to be that way for me. It was scary but I had to make it happen.
        I had to put myself out there. Time after time. I had to learn what healthy relationships are, boundaries, etc. I had to be willing to hear hard feedback even when it hurt, and work on myself and my behaviors.
        I can’t expect others to change, the work has to be in me.
        And there were times I would have to find new friends. When I would grow to the point where I could recognize unhealthiness or even abusive behaviors in another, and if they were unwilling or unable to hear my feedback or my boundaries, I would have to do the painful thing and step away from that relationship. I got hurt a lot, before I learned enough.
        Now there are people in my life to whom I look for support and those I offer support to and those anywhere along that spectrum.

        The recent upheaval has affected a lot of those relationships. It’s been painful. I withdrew (not completely) out of necessity. To heal, to focus on trying to care for myself.
        And keeping awareness for when it was time to push myself a little. Call someone, go to lunch, have someone over, etc.

        I’d like to be able to go to church. There’s a church that I’ve been to a few times and I really like it. But I’m not ready yet. Not ready for that many people. And that’s ok.

        1. You really do know yourself and have done so much work. And the introvert thing can be tricky. My surviving son is an introvert. And the only one on the family that is and I had to learn to give him the space he needed to recharge. And I tell my bereaved parents who are introverts that connecting with one friend or being in the edges of an event talking to one is perfectly fine and acceptable.

          You also have learned which relationships are toxic. I feel sure that took time to tease all that out. (By the way if the thread runs out, just start a new one.) I think it’s difficult for deep feelers to simply filter out painful past and a painful present.

          Do you identify as male, female, gender fluid? Just out of curiosity. And you don’t have to answer that of course.

          I still am amazed at the amount of work it had to take for you to get to the place you are right now.

          1. I suppose when it comes to identity… my how tricky that is for someone with DID! Haha! Extremely tricky and confusing.

            As someone with DID I have “personalities” (parts, alters, self states, etc.) that range from female, male, parts that don’t want to be either because of abuse, even animals.

            Those parts (animal) seem to have integrated, which is the process of self states “coalescing” with the “whole” or primary identity.

            DID comes about from intense or even extreme trauma and abuse. It is a form of survival and coping that has a prevalence of about 1% of the population.

            DID served a necessary survival and coping purpose during my harm, which lasted into my adult years, because of the dissociation and training/conditioning by offenders.

            It took me several years, with the help of a therapist who knew how to help “dissociatives” with my kind of harm, in order for me to get free from those harming me.
            I still live in the area but I now have enough co-consciousness with my parts and cooperation, internally, to stay safe from them (the offenders).
            It took years more to get more healing.

            Some with DID choose to remain a “system”.
            A system is how we refer to the group of parts plus the primary identity/host that exist within the body.
            I know it sounds like a bit much but it is very real.
            Those with DID are not “crazy”/delusional/psychotic/attention seeking, they are survivors, like those with PTSD.
            Typically (but not always) those with DID have PTSD as well.

            The majority of people with DID are nonviolent. We wouldn’t hurt anyone (except for some of us that hurt ourselves but no one else).
            The way the media depicts us in film and television is grossly sensationalized and inaccurate.

            Some people with DID choose to pursue complete integration or mostly, others decide to remain as a system but pursue healing nonetheless. It’s an individual choice and one that must be made by the entire system.

            Some people with DID have mostly parts of the opposite gender. They identify as the opposite gender.
            Others don’t.
            Some feel more fluid, like both or neither.
            Some identity as the gender of the body but might still feel confusion over identity (like me), and some (especially those who have had enough healing) identify as the gender of the body with no confusion.

            I struggle to know who I am, what I really want… I know that I long for healing and stability more than anything and I work toward that goal every day.
            I struggle to… understand all of my feelings and I do spend a lot of time on introspection. I strive to understand myself. I want to examine my motives, to be conscious of what I’m thinking and doing and why. I feel that this is the best way I can learn to be different, healthier, to change for the better.
            More than anything, I strive to never become like those who harmed me.

            I am working with very good therapist. The second to help me with the DID work. It’s been 6 months now. Myself and my parts are learning to open up. We have to push ourselves and say the hard things.

            For instance, the next 3 months are some of the hardest for me. There are a lot of trauma anniversary dates during this time.
            I experience increased flashbacks, nightmares, dissociation, some lost time, difficulty caring for myself, confusion, and struggle, in general.
            I always make it through, though sometimes with some fresh scars.

            Saying these things out loud is hard. But how can anyone help me if I don’t lower that shield and let them in?
            I have to be careful and have an instinct as to whether a person can be trusted with the entirety of who I am. That it (and my history) won’t be too much.
            I’ve made mistakes In the past. Trusted too soon or the wrong person or traumatized someone, secondarily, with too much detail shared, but I learned.

            I have a really good team around me right now.
            Though the medical PCP situation has yet to be fully straightened out.
            I do have an advocate in that regard, which offers me some comfort.

            But things are starting to come into place.
            I’m starting to find and create my new normal, after 4 years in a very different environment.
            My social support is minimal right now yet I know that I have much more than many people, so I am grateful.

            But to resume the discussion of identity…

            ******TRIGGER WARNING******

            I identify as female and straight yet I do have parts of the opposite gender, and they have attractions toward both and yet neither. It can be very confusing.

            Myself and a number of my parts never want anyone to touch us ever again. The only experiences that we’ve had, of “that nature”, have been coerced, manipulated, violent, forced and otherwise nonconsensual.
            I can’t handle the thought of anyone touching me.
            I don’t date. I avoid that area of my life, entirely. It’s something that I have yet to do much work on, yet it is becoming more necessary.

            On the opposite side of things, I have parts that are rather… amorous. They function as they were trained to by offenders. Which includes feelings.

            We do not ever go do anything with another human being yet they struggle to control their feelings.

            It’s complicated and difficult and confusing. Trauma: the “gift” that keeps on giving…

            ******TRIGGER WARNING ENDED******

            It’s not that I don’t want to leave the past in the past, it’s that it won’t let me. It dogs my steps, dictates how my nervous system functions, affects my sleep and every other aspect of my life.

            It seems that it is easier for me to cry into the void, even if others are “listening”.
            The anonymity of the internet allows that which is difficult to speak to be said through words from behind a screen, knowing that those who receive my words do not know who I am.

            Complex trauma is just that: complex.

            It’s as confusing or moreso, even, for the one who has and is experiencing it than to any around them.

            There’s dissociative amnesia where a huge chunk of one’s life or even the majority of it is hidden from the individual except for when experienced through flashbacks, nightmares, triggers, and intrusive memory, sometimes we don’t even know why we were triggered or exactly what it was that was a trigger. I encountered that a lot in my early years of this work.

            Finding a therapist who knows how to help is vital to healing. Unfortunately, most therapists, psychiatrists, and psychologists are insufficiently trained to treat it and even believe much of the misconceptions about DID.
            There is a lot of stigma around the disorder, even within the medical/mental health profession.

            To complicate matters, of the comparatively few practitioners who are sufficiently qualified and experienced enough to help people like myself, few charge rates that many survivors can afford. They are typically private therapists who don’t or can’t accept state and federal insurances.

            Many survivors of intense or extreme trauma that results in a dissociative disorder are incapable of working.
            We are so damaged that it takes all that we have to fight through each day, try and heal, and keep going.

            If one does not have a truly trauma informed provider, it becomes nearly impossible to progress.

            Thankfully, there are some nonprofits and support groups out there that can offer at least some level of informed support.
            This is definitely better than nothing and people can find healing through these sources.

            I would recommend checking out An Infinite Mind’s website. They have information on there about DID and complex trauma and have connections and information for finding support.

            Well, I think I’m about out of words for tonight. I suppose that’s really saying something. Haha!

            1. It used to be called MPD. And my sister in law was a psych nurse who mostly worked with DID patients. All of them in her hospital had the kind of trauma you endured and it was a survival tactic like you said. What else does a child or even an adult do? And the grooming. What happened to you was ghastly, unfair yet you have managed to find some hope and cling to that. I knew when I asked about gender that yours might be a complex answer given your past. Thank you for taking the time to explain.

              While I have had trauma in my life it’s nothing like the never-ending and helpless abuse you endured for way too long. No one stole my childhood from me like yours was stolen from you. I have been reading books, given that so many land on suicide as a result to abuse, about trauma and treatments. It does take a very well trained specialist will to alter it for an individual. I am so grateful you found the energy to advocate for yourself and find support.

              I appreciate the resources too. You shared “Thrive” and now “An Infinite Mind.” I will add those to my resource pages.

              Let me know how you are today. You gotta write a book.

              1. I’m sorry that I haven’t replied for a few days.
                I’m having a chronic condition flare up and it’s been kind of intense.
                To the point where my doctor wants me to go to the ED but I really can’t do that.

                I am very afraid of EDs. I have had a lot of poor treatment and even somewhat abusive experiences by medical professionals in EDs.
                I would have to be pretty sure that I was dying, or had a broken bone, etc.

                At the clinic, they say, “you could die.” I say, “I know, and I don’t mean to be difficult or anything like that.
                I understand what you are saying. If it gets worse, I will consider the ED.”

                I’m not afraid of death. I’m not actively trying to make it happen but it doesn’t bother me, really, that it could happen.
                And I am being honest when I say that if it gets worse, I will seriously consider the matter.

                I just… I’m to the point anymore that I feel anxious around a lot of medical professionals and I just can’t handle any more of that junk.
                The power dynamics, the smirks, the comments, the derision, the dismissiveness, or inferences, the judgements and biases, and sometimes far worse.

                Anyway, I’ve been feeling very tired, and I’m in pain.
                I believe it will be ok and I have a doctor’s appointment coming up. I think I can wait til then.

                It was difficult to write the comment that I wrote last time.
                I had a drink that evening and it definitely loosened my lips.
                I revealed things that I normally don’t or struggle to discuss.
                I certainly was feeling like I overshared.
                Thank you for being receptive to what I had to say.

                I try to be… not so much “vague” but light on the details of the harm that happened to me and others that I knew.

                Beyond the abuse at home (and I need to re-read what I wrote last time…) I was being abused “organizationally”.

                I don’t know if you’ve ever heard the term RAMCOA.
                It represents harm of a certain nature.
                Amongst those with MPD/DID, those who have had this harm are of a smaller number within DID. Although, I believe the prevalence may be higher.
                It’s very complex and horrific. I don’t want to go into any form of detail, though.
                Definitely not in a public forum. That could be dangerous.

                I’m willing to take the risk to write this here in the hopes that it will bring further understanding and maybe even help someone who has endured this harm see that they are not alone, that there is help available, including forms of free support, and that they can get better.
                It takes time. Sadly, there are no shortcuts but despite my (sometimes severe) ups and downs, I can say that the struggle is worth it and it does get better. Not just for me, but for many survivors that I have known and do know.

                (You are not alone. What you endured was real. And there is help. Check out An Infinite Mind. You can even reach out to them. They may be able to connect you with other survivors.)

                It’s a lifelong recovery process, for sure. It’s… there’s just so much there. So much.

                In my family, harm has been done from generation to generation.
                I so wanted for my nephews and nieces to be a free generation.
                My hope and longing didn’t come through. But I still hold hope that as they become adults, if they want to get free of it, they can maybe find me. My heart hurts for them. All I can do right now is pray.

                One of my siblings has been getting away from the family, also. I always knew that if another sibling got free it would be this one.
                I hold hope that this will have a cascade effect.
                That the dominoes will fall and more will find their way to freedom.
                I have strong hope for one other sibling, if they can come out of denial.
                But another sibling… is just so much in it. They continued the abusive patterns. It makes my heart hurt. I still hold hope, though. I believe that no one is beyond redemption.

                So many that do harm have been harmed. They follow these learned patterns.
                It never justifies inflicting the harm done to you upon the innocent. Creating yet another wounded generation.
                We all do have choices. We can continue patterns of abuse or we can fight with all we’ve got to let it stop with us and seek healing, no matter the cost.
                It hurts my heart and angers me when I know that more innocents are being harmed.
                I would fight tooth and nail to protect, if it could be done.

                I know a lot of other survivors who feel the same way.
                Or we’re there for each other to offer compassion, space, and encouragement in this journey. Always ready to reach out a hand to those just starting.

                I’m very passionate about this and education and information.
                I have hope that if more awareness can get out there about DID and RAMCOA, maybe change can happen. Or, at least, survivors can be better understood and helped across the medical industry and perhaps even the justice system.
                But it’s so complicated. Not just the passage of years between harm done and remembering that harm due to dissociation and dissociative amnesia, plus being split into multiple self-states but finding someone who believes you and knows how to help.
                Each alter holds memory or parts of memory and then those alters that feel it’s their job to keep memory hidden because they believe that it’s the only way to survive can interfere in the process of dealing with the pain and finding healing.
                The parts who hold the pain of what happened need healing.
                It’s not enough to survive. It was necessary for that to be enough when harm was happening but that’s not a great way to live the rest of your life. Not all parts/alters/self-states/personalities understand this. They need help, too. To accept that it is safe now to reveal and heal.

                To rapidly switch the course of this “conversation “, I wanted to mention that not only is disbelief, ignorance, and misconceptions rampant within the medical community and mental health community but even within the DID community, RAMCOA can be disbelieved, denied, or misconceived. This causes even more pain and isolation for RAMCOA survivors. Thankfully, we find each other and support each other. My hope is that, with time, these things can change.

                As a final thought: I believe that trauma is trauma.
                Degree of trauma is far less important than the fact that trauma happened.
                Yes, it gets more complex to find healing, depending on type of trauma and length of duration, but trauma is trauma.
                It all affects people in similar ways. The struggle is just as real. The pain is real. The need for healing needs to happen for all.
                I hope that anyone with trauma wouldn’t think less of theirs just because they believe that someone else’s is “worse”.

                1. I do think length of time and how early it started does matter. When abuse happens in a family some carry the pattern forward yet others don’t. Like some kids of alcoholic parents will shun all substances while others go the same direction as the parents. I mean you resisted and at a huge cost to you personally in terms of family connection. The guts it had to take to remove yourself from a toxic situation you had been immersed in all your life is hard to fathom. That process of letting go the bad but also the good that went with “the family.”

                  I didn’t get the impression you overshared. I mean we are on a post about suicide so I feel it’s where you can have those discussions. And the only other ones likely to read it are those who are also struggling. And I know people who come to this site aren’t spending 25 minutes reading my stuff. They are reading the comments. They want to understand someone else’s experience and feel less alone. I hope some of your other siblings follow your lead. After all you have blazed the trail. I hope others also find RAMCOA and look for the. Support you mentioned. It’s great to learn about them and how helpful they have been. How are you feeling today?

                  1. I’m pretty tired today. Only 3 hrs of sleep. But, despite that and some ongoing physical issues. I feel ok.

                    The sun is shining today and that makes my heart happy.

                    I just refilled the bird feeders and I’m watching to see who shows up.

                    Sometimes it’s enough to have a few fun or interesting things to distract from pain, be it physical, emotional, or all of the above. Finding joy despite circumstances helps me to keep my perspective and not go into the darkness.

                    There are plenty of times that I struggle to access joy. I need a “prompt”, almost.
                    Someone saying something that helps to adjust my perspective or my therapist asking me, “what was the highlight of your week?” To which I say, “Ahh. Touché, therapist. I see what you are doing and I shall go along with it and indeed, I shall take YOU by surprise next week with a minimum of 3 highlights instead of wracking my brain to find one.”

                    This all takes place in my head and indeed, I did come up with 3 highlights. It helped me to… it was almost like a foot waking up after going numb. Sluggish, at first, barely moving.
                    But then it starts tingling and sensory information pours into the nerves.
                    Then it settles down and starts functioning as intended.
                    It was like that with my brain. I had tunnel vision toward the negative.
                    So much bad had happened that sometimes, that’s all I can see. What is wrong.

                    The first therapist I had that worked with the DID was the one who taught me about joy.
                    Helped me to adjust my perspective and “see” it, observe it, examine it, timidly touch it, and find that it’s now safe to experience it and allow it encompass me.

                    I still struggle at times, especially when things have been or are difficult and I go into the dark.

                    So when my second DID therapist asked me the “highlight” question, a light went off in my brain and I saw what she was doing and I welcomed it.
                    I decided to turn it into a personal challenge.
                    My brain was still waking up to joy again.
                    I found myself lost in the fog of a week’s time and sifting through mud to find a golden nugget of joy. Even if it was only a moment.

                    For instance, my cat jumping in my lap, or a beautiful bird outside my window, a sunny day, a decent sleep, a visit with a friend, taking a shower, even just getting through a tough day and knowing that the next day might be better. Daring to hope. Or even just to hope for hope.

                    It’s a starting place. All things must have one.
                    It’s an exercise.
                    Building new neural pathways.
                    It’s astounding that the brain is capable of doing this.
                    That we have the possibility to change and grow, with work and effort like forging a pathway through the jungle, machete in hand.
                    Trimming back the pathways that no longer serve us and pouring our energy, our focus, our soul into better things. New things. Good things. Healthy things. Surrounding ourselves with people who will encourage this and once strong enough, being there to be the one doing the same for someone else who is desperately reaching for hope.

                    But I digress.

                    I apologize if I’m rambling. I have a tendency to do so.
                    Or to get off onto rabbit trails.
                    It’s even worse in person. Haha!
                    I catch myself not even finishing a thought or a subject that I am on with someone before I’ve launched into something else because a thought (or part) drew my attention elsewhere.
                    It increases when I am tired.

                    I have a question for you. How are YOU today?

                    1. You write so well that I don’t even think it’s rambling. You really should be an author.

                      And that’s how I managed to work out out the constant darkness of my grief. By forcing myself to see some beauty so it would let in a crack of light. The #gruefheart project also did that for me and for tens of thousands of others who went along with me, scanning the environment for hearts.

                      How am I today? Today was a great day for me. January was tough and February too. For different reasons. But I have things I worked hard for come through when last year many of them fell apart. So I was patient, told myself it would change and it has. Thanks for asking.

                      I am again so grateful you have found someone who knows what they are doing. Have you told them you looked this up? No judgement either way. Promise

  5. I’m not sure what to say…

    The bulk of my life I have been doing a tug of war between life and death, wanting to live and suicide. It started young. 7 maybe..? Earlier?

    I had an extremely abusive background. Grew up in an abusive home. There were terrible things that happened. I have PTSD and DID. I live with flashbacks, nightmares, and triggers every day.
    I have chronic pain partly due to physical trauma from abuse, disorders research is showing has links with trauma, and genetic disorders.
    I’ve tried to kill myself multiple times over the years. I struggle a lot with self harm. Sometimes things get bad and it becomes harder to say “no” to suicide.

    I had a friend who killed themselves 10 or less years ago.
    I struggle to track time.
    It was devastating to me.
    Usually I can stop myself, even with method in hand because I think about the consequences to those I love. My friends, the one sibling in my life right now, the medical and mental health providers that have fought so hard for me. To help me keep going and trying to heal. My cat.
    Sometimes the self harm gets enough “out”. It lets me “breath”.
    Sometimes I drink but I’m trying really hard to not let that become too much of a coping mechanism.

    I do love Jesus. And I know, despite what this world did to me, that He is good. I can see His hand in my life. His provision, protection, and love. There have been times that I should have died but He didn’t let it happen. He says it’s not time. I want to honor that. Sometimes things are just so dang hard.
    I’m low income. I can’t work. It’s tough getting by, especially with the cost of living. It’s scary at times.
    But I remind myself that He is with me. He’s never abandoned me.

    I’m really trying to get the self harm under control. DID can make that super tough. I’ve been struggling to take care of myself at all. Even eating and drinking can be hard. I keep getting dehydrated. I don’t mean to. I’m just so disconnected from everything. My body.

    I ping between the bottom rung and top in the Window of Tolerance. Learned about that last year. Interesting stuff.
    I just want to find the window. I’m in my 40s and sometimes I wonder if I will ever manage it.
    I have a huge fight/flight/freeze startle response.

    That being said, it’s not as bad as it used to be. I HAVE gotten some healing. It IS better than it used to be.
    I found an amazing therapist who knows how to treat the DID and is helping me.
    I found an amazing dietician who knows how to help the eating disorder and work with a system.
    There are people in my corner, cheering me on.

    So I keep going. Keep reaching, hoping to hope, if that’s what it takes.

    Sometimes it gets really dark and I find myself in some dim corner of the internet, researching suicide methods. I’ve paired it down to 3 and I’ve researched those fairly well. I keep them on file in the back of my head and tell the others, “not today.”

    I have a dear friend. About a year and a half ago her sweet teen family member killed themselves. Seeing her heartbreak, hearing the heartbreak of the teen’s family… it keeps in mind the truth about suicide.

    Suicide lies to us. Emotions can lie. It twists up your thinking and makes you think that you’re doing the right thing, even the unselfish thing.
    I have firmly believed that in the past when I attempted.
    Then I’d wake up in the ICU and realize the truth. And what I almost lost.

    I made a lot of minor attempts that no one knew about as a teen. It was in my early 20s that I ended up in the ICU for the first time. My mom and sister had found me.

    I traumatized her. I bear that weight and knowledge that my suicide attempts and self harm traumatized my sister.
    She told me years later that she had even tried cutting herself to cope and, thank God, it didn’t help her. I bear that weight.

    I was truly shocked the first time I woke up in the ICU and found out that my family was devastated by my attempt. I thought they would be relieved. Even happy. That they would get over my death quickly and move on.
    Our home was extremely abusive and dysfunctional. We all seemed to be disconnected, at war with, and loving each other all at once. But that didn’t mean that even with all that, there wasn’t some part of them that… loved us, I guess.

    But… it’s super complicated. The father is not a good person. He did a lot of evil to us. A lot. If he has the ability to love… it’s not a normal one.

    But my mom and sisters… that was different. Still messed up but different.

    I learned something that day. I was frequently… targeted in the family, I thought they’d be better of without me. But they weren’t. They didn’t feel that way.

    It didn’t stop me from trying again. Several times. All of them after the family was no longer in my life. For good reason. I wasn’t being vindictive. I had to do it for very real safety. It broke my heart to do so. There was such… training, all growing up, to do with family “loyalty” (not telling, talking, questioning), guilt/shame conditioning. Including false teaching about God and Jesus and using them to justify abuse. That wasn’t God. I had a knowledge in my heart that God was unhappy about that. Heartbroken for us.

    God actually got me away from all that. Away from the father.

    And God did send caring and loving people into my path at different times. It took years of putting myself out there and taking risks, sometimes getting my heart broken, to build myself a good support system. I had so much to learn about boundaries, communication, even social norms. We had been kept fairly isolated. But, I learned. And there have been those along the journey who helped me.

    I find myself isolating a lot the last 6 months. Some of that has been needed. But I do still see some people or talk socially, from time to time. It’s important not to be completely isolated, and I know that.

    I try to find something every day to be grateful for. Even if it’s the sun coming out from behind a cloud, or a beautiful bird outside, or my silly sweet kitty being funny or nuzzling me… it’s not a platitude. It’s about survival for me.
    It’s too easy for me to get lost in the pain and fear…
    I practice gratitude because it breaks through that boggy bleak fog. It allows me to see color when I’m mostly seeing gray. To connect with joy, even if it’s just for a few seconds.
    I must do this or I will end up dangerously on the edge of the abyss.

    I don’t share most of my trauma history here for several reasons.
    1. This is a public place and that isn’t somewhere I will put those details out there. It’s the stuff of nightmares and horror movies and I’m not exaggerating.

    2. The last thing I would want to do is accidentally trigger someone with a similar history who is already struggling if they’re reading this comment thread.

    And 3. I wouldn’t want anyone to compare wounds. Trauma is trauma. There’s no “mine’s bigger” about it. It has a devastating effect on all.

    It can be really helpful when I or a part of me gives in to the desire to research methods, to find sites like this.
    There are a few I’ve run across when I felt hell-bent that caused me to pause, reminded me of truths that I can be temporarily blinded to, and gives me enough time to take a few breaths before acting.
    This can help with self harm urges, too.

    I tend not to call suicide hotlines. I am truly terrified to go to the hospital. That has rarely been helpful for me and frankly? ER staff can behave truly horrendously toward mental health patients. Even staff on many mental health units can behave horribly.

    Let’s be real here, the state of mental health treatment in most countries isn’t good.
    And less and less hospitals have units dedicated to this.
    And when we look at trauma disorder inpatient care it gets even slimmer. Especially when you’re low income.
    I’ve been traumatized by many hospitals/ERs and just don’t have the heart to try anymore. I don’t want to take the chance of a hotline calling the police and being hauled to one.

    Thankfully, my therapist and care team are working with me to get through this without resorting to that.
    There are times it’s bad enough that I really could use someone to talk to. But they’d need to be truly trauma informed (not everyone who says they are is)

    I did recently find a hotline that seems to have volunteers trained to help those with complex trauma histories. And are less likely to sic the cops on you. Thrive, I think they’re called?
    Where I heard about them was a trauma disorder conference, so that’s promising.

    I haven’t tried calling yet but maybe one of these days, if I’m struggling badly enough and it’s night… maybe I will try.

    But even if I don’t, there’s pages like this. My guess would be that these kind of pages help a lot more than people know.

    And yeah, I have had times that I was frustrated because I couldn’t find pro-suicide sites as easily as I used to. And I’m simultaneously, truly grateful.

    1. Man you have been through it. And it sounds like you have worked your butt off to find support and get a life together. I am so sorry for all the devastating trauma.

      So as I understand it, your mom and sister are positive forces and not toxic family members. Great therapist. And who else can I list in the positive relationships column?
      I have a question. Did writing this help at all? I ask because it helps me to process but I am curious if you had the same experience or how you felt after.

      Second have you ever gone to a group? If so what was that experience like? I ask since you have found a hotline that works for you and talking seems to help when you don’t have the fear that the police will be sent. Do correct anything here that is not right. I want to understand you.

      I would love the number for that hotline you mentioned.

      And thank you for your trust. You knew I would read it all didn’t you? I think you also knew that writing it all would help me understand and process my own loss. And understanding suicide from the point of view of those with lived experience has helped me more than anything other than my son’s music.

  6. You know what else? For years I struggled to understand why someone would want to kill themselves instead of reaching out for help. Now after reading through hundreds if not thousands of posts of suicidal people screaming into the void that is the internet I can conclude that there are many valid reasons that most people don’t seem to understand.

    First of all, many suicidal people do seek help and you know what it does? Fuck all. Wanna know why? Because it’s impossible to talk to therapists about your true thoughts without getting sent to, you guessed it, a fucking psych ward. There are laws in place that state a therapist must get you involuntarily committed to a psych ward if you say you are having active suicidal thoughts, the very reason you are probably seeing one in the first place. How the fuck is a therapist supposed to solve your fucking problems if you can’t even talk about them in the first place?

    Also, you know what another problem with therapy is, the cost and time sink it is. Picture this, you’re depressed because you’re up to your eyeballs in debt or bills and you’re just barely keeping your head above the water, this kind of life would make even the most tenacious person a little suicidal. So what do mental health professionals suggest? You waste lots of money and time on a on a treatment that might not even work. And if it doesn’t work, they suggest you try again with a different therapist wasting yet more time and money. How fucking ironic, you’re depressed because you lack the financial resources for a dignified and stress-free existence and the treatment is waste thousands of dollars and your own time on some other bullshit, thousands of dollars you probably don’t even have. There are other reasons as well, but I’m sick of writing maybe tomorrow or another time I’ll come back and write some more, that is if these comments are even approved.

    1. Uneducated therapists will call 911. That’s a great point. So before anyone engages with one, look for those who don’t default to 911.

      Ask lots of questions and ask for their protocol. And if you don’t like it, skip them. In education sessions we tell clinicians 911 is a last resort and offer them the steps to engage in a long term process to help the person with their own path forward. Some feel suicidal once in their lives. Some live with chronic suicidal thoughts. It’s normal to have had suicidal thoughts some point in one’s life. But no one ever says that. Not every clinician has the adequate training to manage someone with thoughts of suicide. Which is nuts. All of us in this space know about it and work hard to turn that around. But there are some good ones. I would recommend starting with a group because if you go the therapist route, they know all the good ones.

      Personally groups work better for me. When my son was using and when I lost him, the one-on-one just didn’t work but groups did. They always have. And usually they are free. So for example ‘NAMI Connection’ which is Peer to Peer is a good one and they are all over the USA. (And I don’t know if you are in the USA but at the bottom is a link to a group finder.) And the process of finding the right fit with a therapist? Not easy. You make many good points here. Because I read these comments I can share what people who are struggling feel so the clinicians can learn. So thank you.

      Here is the support group finder. And no, they don’t sit around chanting kumbaya and hugging friggen trees. They are people like you and some know of resources to help. Because all of those you mentioned are legit contributing factors for feeling down emotionally.

      Peer support group: https://www.nami.org/Find-Your-Local-NAMI/Affiliate/Programs?classkey=a1x36000003TN9TAAW

  7. If you actually were a mental health expert you wouldn’t include the suicide hotline like all the other fuckin morons do. Do you really think it helps? Hell, I’m not even suicidal, just curious but even I know that suicide hotlines are at best useless and at worst downright harmful and you would have to be misinformed or a moron to call them. The only thing I have ever heard about suicide hotlines online is that people call them, the police show up and then cart them off to a psych ward where at best they are stripped of all their dignity and at worst borderline (or actually) tortured. And all this is without even mentioning that this is the American Hotline. If the psych ward thing happens in the States do you know what else happens? That’s right, they slap you with a massive medical bill! So if your suicidal thoughts were caused by financial struggles (which most are) good for you now you have an even greater reason to kill yourself, on top of your shit financial situation you now also have a massive medical bill to deal with! And before you argue that instances like those mentioned above are the minority and that I am falling for survivorship bias I’m aware that most probably aren’t like that. But should you encourage someone to dial that number when all it is is a game of Russian roulette where the best outcome is some canned platitudes they’ve heard before and the worst outcome is yet another (possibly valid) reason for the caller to end his or her own life?

    1. I thought I labelled the countries on the hotlines but I will surely check and make sure. I do need to update this page. People do come to this page and use them. And others do not. Usually those who report back note a good experience but that is not 100% of the time.

      I can tell you are smoking mad. I hope it helped to type all that out. Perhaps it put some time between thought and action and you are still with us today? Let me know how you are feeling today.

  8. I actually wasn’t looking up how to kill myself. I was trying to find out how it’s physically possible for someone to kill themselves with a shotgun. I don’t own firearms and am not suffering from depression. I don’t know how these things work. I’m trying to find out if it’s true that it cannot be done with shoes on. I’m not so sure that is the case. It sounds like many youths have access to long guns and they take their own lives using them. Very tragic. Wish I could find out what I wanted to know, though, for reasons not related to wishing to do harm on myself. I understand why you do what you do, though.

    1. Such unusual facts you have heard. No shoes? That sounds like a myth to me but who knows? I actually have no idea. I can understand your being curious. Thank you for posting your comment. It has me thinking.

  9. I am really really stunned and very shocked that you would allow someone to spend hours of their time writing to you about such intimate things, such as why would be searching around looking up the keywords that we were. what brought us there.. did it does your website help or not? That kind of thing. I am so incredibly hurt, I really shared all… Sooooo so unexpectedly I never thought I would bump into a site like this looking up how to kill myself with a shotgun properly.

    If you don’t want people to write long stories, may I suggest that you just ask
    them not to. Rather than letting them get on with it, just to ghost it after all the time it took to get out, Vulnerable people can and do get hurt easily. And that hurt, More than I could’ve ever expected! Why on earth I would.. of all things.. I open myself up now, finally just to be shunned by a help site, yeah

    That’s definitely something I would do.

    1. I can totally understand and appreciate your point of view especially in light of your intense physical and emotional pain. It is obviously unbearable. As I mentioned on your last comments they are held in moderation for me to approve. Because sometimes people write really ugly things to another person who has posted. I am ok if someone comes after me. I am not ok if they reply or throw darts at others who are vulnerable.

  10. It’s my story.. it actually took me ages to write that, I put my whole heart into it… Some thing I never expected to do while searching the Internet for this information today. I put my heart into it, I guess it was too long or something. Just never showed up, after your website gave me a second… Just a second to pause and then write, sharing all! Even giving details into the most personal terrible illnesses I have been suffering and dying from. And just like that, poof… It’s all gone, I sat here for two hours for nothing. If that’s not a sign I don’t know what it is.

    Something about that seems very very correct and in tune without the events of my life and how they have always played out. You reach out just as someone’s taking their hand away. That’s me, Except I am the klutz that will fall on the ground I front of all . because I reached too hard.

    1. Jess. I hear you. Comments are held in moderation and it’s only me so sometimes it takes an hour or a few to approve especially if I am sleeping or on a plane. Thank you for commenting and helping us understand all the nuances of this subject. Of which there are many gray areas. And you pointed out one.

  11. This is exhausting! I just want facts on what I looked up. It’s not so terribly Wrong you know? People who are very serious about their act, don’t want to injure themselves even further… I don’t want to be disfigured or in any more pain than I already am in at this very moment, if I do this wrong and just further injure myself and my family.

    I am Jess, I am and have been dying from actually several extremely painful diseases, syndromes etc. I am experiencing organ failure, one of which is my pancreas… Do you have any idea how much pain I am actually talking about? It’s far worse than childbirth ever thought Of being.

    What is so wrong with people who want to look up how to do it correctly… So they don’t wind up being in more and more pain?

    I am TRULY sorry for your loss, however you need to understand that people who are going to this level, looking up these very specific words… Aren’t looking for a hand up nor hand out.. maybe one out of a thousand might be however the majority, like me, They’re looking for details that will assist them, from making a mistake that will cause them and everyone in their lives more embarrassing and physically unendurable pain, more endless caretaking, and endless unrelenting incurable agony.

    It’s my belief that people who are dying, or are in physical pain without an end in any stretch of the imagination, real raw “every cell in your body screeching in agony, kind of real, really, far too real..agonizing endless physical pain. That kind…. That no matter how much you believe in your Lord and Savior, and have served them faithfully for 40 years and are and realistically, Inherently trying, so very hard, to be truly good, and no matter how much you spend your life trying to live the gospel. Peoples suffering from incurable, specific and horrific diseases/ailments Truly can’t create a way or pray their way out of level 10 tearing,? jerking and screaming pain. I’ve tried for over 30 years and am now facing dementia in my early 40’s, people suffering so much, well, We should have a choice.

    I cannot believe that I am going to hell. Because I have lived in hell for over 20 years, and I know my Lord loves me.

    Do I wanna live another 20 or 40 years? Of course not. I’ve lived a good long life, filled peoples lives with joy, kindness generosity and love. No one would argue against that. I have also Stretched a fake smile across my face for days on end when all I want to do is scream in agony, cry my eyes out, and all that effort, just to please and satisfy my son and husband. My son is now graduating high school with honors and a full College scholarship. He also does not need me anymore. He’s exhausted by the fact that I am constantly sick, (really great kid, just gets tiresome! you know. ) I’ve never let him see how much pain I am really in. My husband however has seen And we have tried everything in humanity to Find relief. In any form or shape. Doctors don’t prescribe pain meds anymore, because they’re afraid people will take to many and die. The government has created so many laws and restrictions now, people like myself who are dying, due to stomach and bleeding problems cannot take over-the-counter nonsteroidal anti-inflammatories, well… We cannot find any relief. Please believe I have spent the greater part of 20 years trying everything, I wanted to be the best mother possible for my son! We tried everything! If I was able to bring my pain level down just by gosh, maybe 5 percent, I would not be looking up how to kill myself with my shotgun correctly.

    That, that simple medication or pain relief is not an option in todays world.

    Can I ask you honestly? Anyone… What is the greater sin?

    Leaving someone who is slowly dying and experiencing the worst and most painful Organ failure Possible, someone who literally had never abused medication or even tried a “street” drug in their entire lives.

    Is it sin That I am going to take my life, and finally find relief, a peace from all of this pain? Save my husband and son from endless caretaking and Watching helplessly as I fade away…?

    is the sin in wanting a better ending for myself and my family…? I Really do want to be brave enough and love myself enough to stop this terrible terrible torture before I can’t recognize the ones I love anymore. I mentioned early dementia, bleeds in the Brain etc? Well anyways, Truly give them a chance at life, free of the chains that have for so so long, tied them to my bedside. Oh.. now I’m crying again.. I really wanna finish this question though!

    Please answer? What is the greater sin?
    Do you really believe you someone like me will go to a hell after living in one literally for so very very long. I’m So tired Im so exhausted, why can’t I be…. “selfish” just this once and also give the gift of life to my family at the same time? Or? Should I be “selfish” and live..? wind up screaming in unbearable agony as my son changes my diapers whilst I am screaming and yelling obscenities at the bed pan, why ?? because my dementia is telling me…, it is my doctor or nurse. when and if I remember them at all?? I know that sounds silly, but some version of that would be my reality should I fail in my goal,

    The doctors won’t treat pain now. I was treated many many many many years ago, I still remember going on picnics with My sweet husband and my boy! The joy of just being able to wash up the dishes after lunch, make a salad for a family get together! I haven’t been to a family get together.., in, oh it’s been so long. It was a little good go but I still remember what it fell like to have a life outside of my bed. So beautiful. That was my only and last hope and I tried everywhere. However Because I do have longer than 6 month to live..
    No hospice, no nurse, no pain relief… after 20 plus years of being brave and “tough” beating the odds… thete are no life lines.. I’ve run into never ending dead ends. I even wrote letters to Big swingers! Our senators, members of Congress!! No joke! I was trying to stop the “war” on pain meds in 2018, even got a letter back from one of our
    “great” congressmen! He’s very kindly expressed sadness surrounding my personal situation, however could not change the rules…brand new, not voted in yet “rules” as they have now been written for everyone. People now walk/crawl their way out of back surgery with out more than an ibu profin!! The stories I’ve heard from those I try to help find care are enough to truly help, ALL walks of life, petition for pain treatments , even assisted suicide for chronically Ill men and women just like me .I can’t do this to my loved ones.

    I’ll ask you now, is suicide in every and all situations still so very wrong? So “selfish?”Even when it saves everyone around you from watching you fade away right before their eyes, and yourself from living hell, lost scared and only aware of pain that causes screams to escape your tightened lips, tears from your swollen eyes..?

    If I change my mind as you and yours would so love, I have to continue letting my loved and adored husband take me to the Bathroom, assist removing hard bowels, give baths, showers… I Will forever, and every year very progressively rely on everyone else to do even the basic, disgusting yet simple functions I can’t do now. oh my gosh! I can’t even fathom what’s in the future! Can’t you understand? I was never going to take the time to post anything here, I just thought maybe… Just maybe I could help one more person understand, suicide is not evil. It’s not selfish, well, not in every case. It can be done out of love, concern.

    I ask you desperately and beg for an answer?? it’s so incredibly painful and horrible to watch them watch me die slowly and horrifically. I’m talking blood and fluids everywhere. My husband can now barely hold his career because he can’t leave me alone anymore. FMLA has maximum days a month off, unpaid too, we quickly eat through his paid leave within the first few months of the year. The house is next to go. He loves me enough to let me go, I know that without even asking.

    Do you?

    Or as I’ve asked.., is it selfish for me to go to join my father and mother in heaven.. or perhaps go to hell?

    Or, is it selfish to distort my loved ones lives a day at a time.. until they endless years in the future watch a woman pass away with a huge sigh of well earned /relief!!! A woman who was probably in the end verbally abusive, to nurses.. problematic for other patients in the nursing home I’ll have to go into, a reflection of myself who had not a clue who they were, screaming endlessly in pain and confusion.. a woman who had NO IDEA THAT SHE WAS A WIFE AND MOTHER to these blessed poor souls who poured every cent and speck of love, time and ounce of nerves on ..someone.. whom vaguely looked liked a loved one.

    That is my most realistic future should I fail at my task. So I ask you again, please answer and honestly so…… Is it selfish of me to want to save myself and the boys for anything like that future and even from our current situation. Or would it be selfish to cling to this life, come what may…. Watching myself worse than every day, my thoughts get more refuddled, my husband struggle more and more to make the house payment.

    Should people who are in curably ill with one or many conditions be allowed to choose? In every state, not just one or two did you have to live in for years before you can even apply For program filled with so much red tape you don’t have a chance.

    Should there be something out there for those of us who really are trying not to be selfish? Please tell me, after hearing all my story after hearing my
    Incredibly long story, would you condemn me to hell for the “evil” I’ve been planning on,, no, counting on?

    1. My god I am so sorry for your agony. I do wish that there was a “death with dignity” kind of clause for cases where someone has terminal pain or end of life agony. Thank you for sharing your story and your thoughts. I heard your cries. And I wish I could give you a hug.

  12. I love my two kids, my wife (their stepmother) and so importantly to me-Jesus Christ. This!! This is what holds me from ending things by suicide. My sincere apologies to whom ever this may offend. I’m only sharing -me!

  13. Please don’t give up hope even if people make unkind remarks I apriciate what you are doing here.

  14. Please just tell me how to die I am a heart trans plant and have diabetes and I just want to end it please just please

  15. I came here for a legit suicide advice, i feel your loss but i dont appreciate you clickbaiting people. if you have no solid advice to give. Say your comforting words to whoever wants to hear them.

    1. I feel those experiencing suicide intensity are not themselves for the amount of time that brain attack is happening. I do understand and appreciate your objections and I also understand it would make you angry.

  16. Anne,
    I am sorry for your loss. Your son was young and had life in front of him. I am old, in pain, and my life is behind me. My thoughts of suicide are selfish. I am tired of pain and have no hope of change. It is not that the world is better off without me, as the world does not care about me at all. It is that I am better off without the world.

    There are only two things that hold me back from completing my task. I don’t want to hurt those who foolishly love me and I fear Hell, but as time marches forward, those reasons hold less and less sway over me. Why is suicide seen in such a negative light? How many failed suicides try again until they get it right?

    1. Dave I’m so sorry for your pain. I think that most people really don’t want to die. I am not one to pass judgment because I don’t stand in your shoes.

      Thank you for commenting. I want to know about your pain because it helps me to understand the “why.”

    2. I feel the same, Dave. I would like to meet you so that the two of us could speak freely about it. All pro-suicide sites have been shut down, it’s awful not having anyone to talk to. I hope you will reply.

  17. Hi there…
    I am not looking for a way to kill myself….
    My son Brandon (16), committed suicide on 15 August 2018, I believe it was murder, but no one believes me.
    I just want to say thank you for your site, and I pray young teenagers will find it, so that they can get help…

    I was actually looking for a site that can actually prove to me that what he had done, is even possible…

    Kind regards

    1. Oh catherine. I am so sorry. Either way, murder or suicide, it’s devastating to lose a child. I know how that feels. Thank you for commenting. A lot of people thought at first there might be foul play with my son’s suicide. But he had journals that show the suffered thoughts of suicide for years. And I never knew.

  18. Bitch i thought this was a fucking how to, not a fucking thing saying “no dont do it” if i wanted help i’d google that shit. this fucking shit is misleading you dumb cunt

    1. Your anger is understandable in A moment of desperation and pain. But having been on the other side of a suicide, the suicide loss survivor, it’s worth it to try. Some don’t even know they are looking up ways to die. And people have used these posts to reach out for help.

  19. Why is this site a top hit for ‘How do I kill myself with a shotgun?’

    If I wanted help Id seek it. Its my choice to die, not yours.

    1. I am sorry you feel the way you do. I can’t help but give it a try. I rank for other pages on ways to die and some have made the decision not to kill themselves because of it. So some people are not sure they want to die.

  20. I pray they grasp the lifeline you are throwing out there. I didn’t know there is a text helpline too. Such a good idea.

  21. I love that you do this, that you don’t shrink from what desperate people are thinking. Keep throwing out that lifeline, Anne Moss. ❤️

    1. I will. I usually use some keyword search tools to help me. But google won’t return ant results on this subject. I do understand. They don’t want people running ads with those phrases

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